Well. . . Don't you thinks 10,000 Trees and Ents are enough of a counter to trolls not to mention that you guys always insist that trolls can be destroyed by arrows (their are numerous places in the movies where they show that some trolls have completely arrow-resistant skin.). Oh yeah, and they're "weak to javelins". and then of course a scorpion/catapult or any other seige weapon could destroy one. I think we have enough of a counter to trolls. Also, if their was one skin-changer in the Hobbit, their would be one in the Lord of the Rings. having a sub-HQ in that area might not be bad, but no skin-changers unless gundabad gets Werewolves and men.
The Ents aren't there as a counter to the Trolls so much in the sense that they're there to defeat the Trolls, but to rather be Good's equivalent of them. Regardless of what ideas we may come up with, there's no denying that Trolls are very unique units, and nothing can really be compared to them besides the Ents. And just as Trolls have many weaknesses (varying by what they're equipped with) besides the Ents, the Ents have many weaknesses outside of Trolls (fire, for example, would be absolutely devastating against Ents, especially if there are no significant sources of water nearby).
Werewolves are, I think, a reasonable unit for Gundabad based upon the evidence that we have of Werewolves serving Sauron at this time (I did find the part where Gandalf said that, in "Many Meetings"). I'm not so sure about Men though. I know of no evidence that Men ever occupied Gundabad, though I know for sure it was inhabited by Orcs. Uruk-hai may be acceptable for it, and I see no disadvantage to having them as opposed to Men (especially when you also have the Werewolves with them, and lesser Orcs at Dol Guldur).
Yeah, I saw that after I posted my thing. I would appreciate that. But at the same time, I have been leader of it ever since the original owner officially retired, so I suppose I could let you take over if you really wanted to lead Erebor.
No, you can take over. You would do much better than me. It would be a great learning experience to serve under you. I'll lead Dale instead.
I don't mean to be a downer. But I sort of all ready claimed Dale. Plus I led it before the old RP shut down. But mirkwood is oppen and I would love to have you at dale, either the main HQ or leading the Sub-HQ.
I don't think we're quite at that point yet, but probably soon.
Ok. But what do you think of those choses?
I mean, they're all fine. They all have their issues and their bonuses.
Esgaroth: Probably the most canonical, and the easiest one to do. Esgaroth is. . . Unexceptional. Its units would similar to Dale's, it's right on Dale's doorstep, and it's really just generally "normal". It would be easy and there wouldn't be many questions about stuff, even if it's not the most unique.
Dorwinion: The biggest issue with this one is that we really just don't know a whole lot about it. I would guess that its units would be fairly similar to Dale's, but it is at least set somewhat away from the main HQ (albeit on Rhun's border, for better or for worse).
Vales of the Anduin: Certainly the most unique of the options, but perhaps also the most questionable in general. It would definitely add strategic value to Dale as far as unit types go (seeing as how it would include Beornings/other Skin-changers). However, we really don't know if there were enough Skin-changers nearby (or even in existence) to be viable as NPCs.
Rhovanion: After a bit of further research on TG, this seems more fit as the overall HQ (with Dale as the main HQ, and something else as the subsidiary). From what I can tell, the Dalesmen are more or less descendants of the "Vidugavians", and so Dale would cover any other Northmen within Rhovanion. If we were to make it the sub-HQ, it would be essentially identical to Dale itself.
Well, since we're talking about votes and whatnot, I might as well bring this up.
Technically, I'm probably the Rep of this RP, as well as the 4th Age one. I'm fine with that. However, I'm also not finding much time to get on here recently. So it might be better for the RP if we choose a different Rep for at least one of the two RPs.
So if anyone here is interested in the position, and seriously feels they have the necessary qualifications for it, feel free to volunteer. As the Dep, Bobby would have precedence, but I'm guessing he's in the same boat as myself. Obviously, this RP will take some time to put together, but I just wanted to put this out there for everyone to think about. Thanks!
I'm open to doing it, although I can't say I'd be the best, or even close.
One mod to rule them all and in the darkness ban them - Lord of the Mods "I am the Mod Reborn!" - masterlegobuilders I'm the real boss
Well, since we're talking about votes and whatnot, I might as well bring this up.
Technically, I'm probably the Rep of this RP, as well as the 4th Age one. I'm fine with that. However, I'm also not finding much time to get on here recently. So it might be better for the RP if we choose a different Rep for at least one of the two RPs.
So if anyone here is interested in the position, and seriously feels they have the necessary qualifications for it, feel free to volunteer. As the Dep, Bobby would have precedence, but I'm guessing he's in the same boat as myself. Obviously, this RP will take some time to put together, but I just wanted to put this out there for everyone to think about. Thanks!
I'm open to doing it, although I can't say I'd be the best, or even close.
I can do it. My only thing is that I ask that their IS a Deputy Rep or Two, in case I get in an Argument (I'm not staying away from Goaty, Goaty would have to stay away from me. And that probably won't turn out good.) So. . . I'll do it. I can listen (and I do, other people don't listen back. A horse can't jump over a boulder, and still have the balance for a rider to throw a javelin. Horses will stop if they're charging into a large metal flail. It's basic physics and science.)
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
You think I'm Fighting Kitkat? Maybe. . . If I have 5 times his numbers, mainly in Goblin Mercenaries and Trebuchets. Otherwise, it is unlikely I'll ever have a chance against him.
I never said anything about winning...
Why would I battle him if I don't have the chance of winning?
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
Other than the fact that Ents are stronger than Trolls, yeah they are more of an Equivalent. However, that doesn't change that I'm annoyed with people saying "they're OP, They are Weak to This, they are Weak to That." despite the reality of it *coughgoatycough*. I mean, my HArmored trolls I have SAID are almost completely resistant to arrows (and their are Canon examples of this) as well as Trolls smart enough to use weaponry to destroy a phalanx of pikemen (both in the Return of the King Movie, during the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. And as their is nothing against it in his books, I see nothing their.). And either way, that's still enough of a reason to not have Skin-Changers.
Whatever. I'm not a part of it, and I was more of hoping to give Tuvok a bit more variation. It's not that big of a deal, and yeah the Werewolves are probably enough.
Yeah, Ents are stronger that Trolls in and of themselves, but they're also much less diverse. You've essentially got two kinds of Ents: Huorns which are really only good en masse against large groups of infantry, and regular Ents who are really just like stronger unarmed Trolls. With Trolls on the other hand, you can give them all sorts of weaponry to specialize them towards certain tasks, and thus have a bit more variety.
And that's an issue that I'm not going to get into right now. If you have an argument about a Troll's weaknesses again, come find me and I can try to give you my two cents on whatever the exact issue is. I can't really do much about that stuff right now, though.
I don't really see how it applies to the Skin-changers. Skin-changers would more likely be a counter to Werewolves (albeit very different, likely being stronger but less agile) than Trolls. I think the bigger issue with the Skin-changers is the question of whether they canonically had anywhere near the numbers to justify their own sub-HQ.
Dol Guldur is actually a pretty diverse HQ already. It's got Trolls and Orcs, plus probably Werewolves and maybe even Uruk-hai (I also, personally, wouldn't be too opposed to spider units). I don't see any lack of options for units, as that should be everything one really needs for a diverse army. But we'll see what Tuvok has to say.
How much does any weapon change a Troll? A Shield helps change their purpose. Oh wait, then their is half-trolls that people could use to change them. . . yeah, you're right. My point is that everyone Tries to do it, Goaty is the only one who pursued it. I will, you're probably the only one who'll be able to solve it.
True. . . And the numbers are no. Beorn said that he was the last somewhere, didn't he? The goblins enslaved his whole family, so it would makes sense that they've been doing it for so long that their are almost no more. We could have normal men in that region, but Skin Changers I don't feel would be enough.
Yeah, now that I look at it, It is really diverse. And yeah, spiders would be an awesome unit to add to it.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
Well, since we're talking about votes and whatnot, I might as well bring this up.
Technically, I'm probably the Rep of this RP, as well as the 4th Age one. I'm fine with that. However, I'm also not finding much time to get on here recently. So it might be better for the RP if we choose a different Rep for at least one of the two RPs.
So if anyone here is interested in the position, and seriously feels they have the necessary qualifications for it, feel free to volunteer. As the Dep, Bobby would have precedence, but I'm guessing he's in the same boat as myself. Obviously, this RP will take some time to put together, but I just wanted to put this out there for everyone to think about. Thanks!
I could take the position again. If somebody else wants it, they are more than welcome to take it, but I should be available if not.
It's Kitkat's position. period. He's the best person to solve arguments in the RP as far as I know.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
exactly. a game. Not Canon. I understand that trolls need weaknesses, but Ents, Seige Weapons and minor weakness to Javelins and archers would be fine. My point is that it's bad. Also, the Beornings would still be tip the balance I feel. Skin-changers are a definite no.
It is a game yet a very Relistict one to. If a troll gets hit by a steel brood head, from a longbow. He is going down. The movies are not Canon. Beside Legolas slays a troll in the Fellowship.
No I don't think they would. Why would they?
OK, two things. First off, their is a canon order in this. First is Tolkiens official works. Next is the movies. Then is other stuff like Games, Tolkien Gateway, etc. Pretty sure that's the entire canonicity order. And in the movies, their are many places where Gondorians attack the trolls with bows, and it takes several dozens of arrows, to fail or (rarely) to suceed. Legolas is 1. completely OP. Seriously, people called buffing someone in a movie "under the Legolas Effect". 2. He did it through the mouth. a half a foot away from the trolls skull and no. But through the mouth was a yes.
Because that they would be as powerful as Trolls the amount they would take out. Our only real reference is the Movies in this situation. Therefore, we will have 20,000 MWE that could be Trolls on the good side, when they don't need it in the first place! (seriously, No-one's complained about Trolls in the 4th Age RP.) And Evil can't fight Trolls. Ents, yes. but that's just half of it. what about Bears? I just don't like it.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
Other than the fact that Ents are stronger than Trolls, yeah they are more of an Equivalent. However, that doesn't change that I'm annoyed with people saying "they're OP, They are Weak to This, they are Weak to That." despite the reality of it *coughgoatycough*. I mean, my HArmored trolls I have SAID are almost completely resistant to arrows (and their are Canon examples of this) as well as Trolls smart enough to use weaponry to destroy a phalanx of pikemen (both in the Return of the King Movie, during the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. And as their is nothing against it in his books, I see nothing their.). And either way, that's still enough of a reason to not have Skin-Changers.
Whatever. I'm not a part of it, and I was more of hoping to give Tuvok a bit more variation. It's not that big of a deal, and yeah the Werewolves are probably enough.
Yeah, Ents are stronger that Trolls in and of themselves, but they're also much less diverse. You've essentially got two kinds of Ents: Huorns which are really only good en masse against large groups of infantry, and regular Ents who are really just like stronger unarmed Trolls. With Trolls on the other hand, you can give them all sorts of weaponry to specialize them towards certain tasks, and thus have a bit more variety.
And that's an issue that I'm not going to get into right now. If you have an argument about a Troll's weaknesses again, come find me and I can try to give you my two cents on whatever the exact issue is. I can't really do much about that stuff right now, though.
I don't really see how it applies to the Skin-changers. Skin-changers would more likely be a counter to Werewolves (albeit very different, likely being stronger but less agile) than Trolls. I think the bigger issue with the Skin-changers is the question of whether they canonically had anywhere near the numbers to justify their own sub-HQ.
Dol Guldur is actually a pretty diverse HQ already. It's got Trolls and Orcs, plus probably Werewolves and maybe even Uruk-hai (I also, personally, wouldn't be too opposed to spider units). I don't see any lack of options for units, as that should be everything one really needs for a diverse army. But we'll see what Tuvok has to say.
Ok there seems to be a few misconceptions about the proposed Beorning HQ and I am posting this to clear this up.
1. The skinchangers are OP and will inbalince the RP.
A: NO. They are not op, they can change into a bear, and as a unit would function much like trolls. Note that they are not trolls though. Yet they would have much the same weekness as trolls.
Here is an example of a skinchanger unit IMO. IS NOT FINAL.
Skinchangers/Beornings. Worth 8 As human. Light to no armor, bear skin cloak, Two handed axe, sidearm.
As Bear. Thick fur, claws, teath.
I don't think I need to wright out a description for this yet. But tell me does that seem OP?
2. There is not enough Beornings to make up a HQ.
A: Yes there is enough Beornings to have a HQ on its own. HENCE why it would NOT just be Beornings. The HQ would be made up of Vales men with a maybe a few remains of the Eotheod.
Guardians of the Carrock. Worth 6 Plate armor, two-handed axes, buckler shields, sword, sidearm.
Skinchangers. Worth 8 See other post.
I will also have several arrcher and cavalry units. If we do have this HQ, I may see about having some non skinchanging bears, but I will hold off on that for now.
Yeah, Ents are stronger that Trolls in and of themselves, but they're also much less diverse. You've essentially got two kinds of Ents: Huorns which are really only good en masse against large groups of infantry, and regular Ents who are really just like stronger unarmed Trolls. With Trolls on the other hand, you can give them all sorts of weaponry to specialize them towards certain tasks, and thus have a bit more variety.
And that's an issue that I'm not going to get into right now. If you have an argument about a Troll's weaknesses again, come find me and I can try to give you my two cents on whatever the exact issue is. I can't really do much about that stuff right now, though.
I don't really see how it applies to the Skin-changers. Skin-changers would more likely be a counter to Werewolves (albeit very different, likely being stronger but less agile) than Trolls. I think the bigger issue with the Skin-changers is the question of whether they canonically had anywhere near the numbers to justify their own sub-HQ.
Dol Guldur is actually a pretty diverse HQ already. It's got Trolls and Orcs, plus probably Werewolves and maybe even Uruk-hai (I also, personally, wouldn't be too opposed to spider units). I don't see any lack of options for units, as that should be everything one really needs for a diverse army. But we'll see what Tuvok has to say.
How much does any weapon change a Troll? A Shield helps change their purpose. Oh wait, then their is half-trolls that people could use to change them. . . yeah, you're right. My point is that everyone Tries to do it, Goaty is the only one who pursued it. I will, you're probably the only one who'll be able to solve it.
True. . . And the numbers are no. Beorn said that he was the last somewhere, didn't he? The goblins enslaved his whole family, so it would makes sense that they've been doing it for so long that their are almost no more. We could have normal men in that region, but Skin Changers I don't feel would be enough.
Yeah, now that I look at it, It is really diverse. And yeah, spiders would be an awesome unit to add to it.
It doesn't change their purpose, but it makes them more suitable for certain situations. Shields and armor will make them harder to take down. Clubs and other basic weapons can give them more hitting power, some weapons more so against specific kinds of units. Then you can get into all of the weird modifications, including ranged weaponry, that give Trolls an entirely different skillset (besides straight-up smashing stuff).
I don't recall that exactly. I suppose it's possible that he was the last one during The Hobbit, but there were more by the time of the War of the Ring. I think I remember one of the Dwarves at Rivendell (probably Gloin, but maybe one of his companions, or maybe it was someone completely different at another time) mentioning that they had been in contact with the Beornings, and were given honey cakes (the best there were) for their travels. Based upon the information in Tolkien Gateway (and vaguely retained in my memory), the Beornings were somewhat active during the War of the Ring under Grimbeorn (son of Beorn), and kept the High Pass and other paths open for travelers. The later generations could still morph into bears (at least those who were actually descended from Beorn, though we don't know if other peoples joined into their group), although they weren't nearly as tough (which would be ideal for the RP). Actually, as I'm doing more research on this, I think a Vales of the Anduin sub-HQ would actually be a good addition to Dale. Of course we would have regular woodsmen for most of the troops, but Beornings and perhaps other Skin-changers could be included in the more elite troops. It would really be quite similar in concept to Gundabad.
