In all honesty, I don't think whether or not a captured sub-HQ's troops are regenerable or not will make a significant difference in how long it takes for it to be recaptured. If one can regenerate them, then most of the troops will probably stay and protect the HQ, while some will go out to battle, boosting the main HQ's power a little bit. If they're not regenerable, then any crafty RPer will simply ship the sub-HQ's troops off to whatever locations are most secure, and leave them there as the garrison while the old garrison goes out to fight. The end result will be the same, it's just that one option takes a lot more effort from the user.
But I understand where you're coming from with this, and I have another idea that might work. Rather than go with a simple regenerable or non-regenerable boost in troops for the capturing HQ, I suggest a bit of a mixture between the two. Say, upon capture, the sub-HQ grants five-thousand troops worth to its new parent-HQ (to be generated at the sub-HQ as usual), but only raises the actual troop limit by about two thousand MWE or so. This will give a temporary bonus to the main HQ without such a major loophole, but isn't so temporary that the sub-HQ becomes a burden once the extra troops are destroyed. You'll get three thousand troops to boost your current armies for a little bit, and two thousand long-term troops that can defend the sub-HQ. Since the non-regenerable part is built into the troop limit as opposed to specific troops, you can't just hide the non-regenerable troops so that you don't lose them, since none of your troops will be regenerable until enough are destroyed. We will still have to figure out some other things, like what the requirements are to be re-granted a sub-HQ's troops (presumably the HQ would have to be lost and then re-captured, but I'd suggest a time delay in between the two to prevent workarounds to keep the additional troops), and there are some other issues of its own that will need to be resolved (like how the bonus troops work when the main HQ doesn't have all of its troops generated), but I think it'll be a better solution to the same problem with capturable sub-HQs.
Alright, yeah, but any crafty RPer would still do the same, it just means they can regen a few as well in the garrison of another/same region.
So, perhaps it should be the next 3000 MWE you lose in battle are non regenerable to completely negate being able to hide them? I suggest the other HQ (opposite side) has to hold it, not under siege for two weeks at least.
The first part I don't entirely understand what you're saying, but I don't think that'll really matter.
That's more or less what I meant. Actually, it's better than what I said, but exactly the idea that I was trying to put out. So upon capturing an enemy sub-HQ, the new owner gains five thousand troops and their troop limit is raised by two thousand. The next three thousand troops lost, however, are not regenerable (though troops lost before the sub-HQ was captured are). When the sub-HQ is restored to its original owner, their troop limit is restored to its normal additional ten thousand (I suggest that the ten thousand only apply to the original HQ, excluding enemies and allies alike, so as to provide an extra incentive for allies to give the HQ back to its rightful owner should they acquire it). That sounds about right.
I don't think they where since Gandalf said that Sauron had Werewolves, and trolls, and orcs in his army's. I didn't say we should have them, I just thought that it would be ok for balince. But we could also make Beornings more a counter to Trolls.
Do you remember where he said that?
I'll be honest. I just goggled it and saw what it said on the wiki and tolkien gateway. Since I didn't have the time in to look it up in the books. I think it said that it was when Gandalf was talking to Frodo in Rivendell. So that would be in the beging of Meny Meetings.
Pfft, it isn't even four thousand. Plus, mine is more condensed, so it takes up less vertical space.
And that's probably one of the parts that we'll actually need a vote on. Dale does have several options for its sub-HQ, but none of them are quite ideal.
Five thousand seems good to me. Not so much as to immediately let the capturing HQ overpower everyone else, but enough to make it noticeably better than a standard region. With how valuable sub-HQs are anyways, most of these troops will likely be used to defend them, just like the troops from regular regions are. Other troop bonuses like the SWE boost should probably also be about half.
Seems reasonable.
Wait, sorry, I accidentally counted to wrong post. I knew it was a little bit longer than that. But still, mine's more condensed vertically than yours.
I was trying to be easy on the moderators.
Ok, should I post a vote?
Here is what I think we should have if we have a vote.
Dorwonion: Trader HQ, few Avari and more northmen.
Esgaroth: Lakemen HQ
Anduin/Gladin Fields: Beorning: HQ. Or we could move it farther north and make it a Eorlingas: HQ
I don't think they where since Gandalf said that Sauron had Werewolves, and trolls, and orcs in his army's. I didn't say we should have them, I just thought that it would be ok for balince. But we could also make Beornings more a counter to Trolls.
Well. . . Don't you thinks 10,000 Trees and Ents are enough of a counter to trolls not to mention that you guys always insist that trolls can be destroyed by arrows (their are numerous places in the movies where they show that some trolls have completely arrow-resistant skin.). Oh yeah, and they're "weak to javelins". and then of course a scorpion/catapult or any other seige weapon could destroy one. I think we have enough of a counter to trolls. Also, if their was one skin-changer in the Hobbit, their would be one in the Lord of the Rings. having a sub-HQ in that area might not be bad, but no skin-changers unless gundabad gets Werewolves and men.
Most of those weakness come from a game. But trolls do need some weakness. The Beornings would have much the same weakness. Or we could just make them huge men, like berserkers. Beside that would be there best troops and the rest of the hq would be more of a arrcher HQ with some good pikes, and rangers. We might even throw in a few hobbits.
Wait, sorry, I accidentally counted to wrong post. I knew it was a little bit longer than that. But still, mine's more condensed vertically than yours.
I was trying to be easy on the moderators.
Ok, should I post a vote?
Here is what I think we should have if we have a vote.
Dorwonion: Trader HQ, few Avari and more northmen.
Esgaroth: Lakemen HQ
Anduin/Gladin Fields: Beorning: HQ. Or we could move it farther north and make it a Eorlingas: HQ
Or maybe. Rhovanion: Vidugavian HQ.
Ok sounds good.
Lakemen.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
Well. . . Don't you thinks 10,000 Trees and Ents are enough of a counter to trolls not to mention that you guys always insist that trolls can be destroyed by arrows (their are numerous places in the movies where they show that some trolls have completely arrow-resistant skin.). Oh yeah, and they're "weak to javelins". and then of course a scorpion/catapult or any other seige weapon could destroy one. I think we have enough of a counter to trolls. Also, if their was one skin-changer in the Hobbit, their would be one in the Lord of the Rings. having a sub-HQ in that area might not be bad, but no skin-changers unless gundabad gets Werewolves and men.
Most of those weakness come from a game. But trolls do need some weakness. The Beornings would have much the same weakness. Or we could just make them huge men, like berserkers. Beside that would be there best troops and the rest of the hq would be more of a arrcher HQ with some good pikes, and rangers. We might even throw in a few hobbits.
exactly. a game. Not Canon. I understand that trolls need weaknesses, but Ents, Seige Weapons and minor weakness to Javelins and archers would be fine. My point is that it's bad. Also, the Beornings would still be tip the balance I feel. Skin-changers are a definite no.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
Alright, yeah, but any crafty RPer would still do the same, it just means they can regen a few as well in the garrison of another/same region.
So, perhaps it should be the next 3000 MWE you lose in battle are non regenerable to completely negate being able to hide them? I suggest the other HQ (opposite side) has to hold it, not under siege for two weeks at least.
That's what Kitkat said. And what do you mean, hold it without it being under siege for two weeks? a captured sub-HQ is going to be way more difficult to be not under siege. It's 10,000 MWE to that side. I'd be surprised if their is ever a time when at least one isn't under attack.
Alright, I wasn't certain, but I suspected that was how I should have interpreted it It's first and foremost to prevent the other side from leaving it empty, allowing the side to capture it and then immediately attack it again to get the MWE bonus again, and to prevent generation there. Basically to try and close and loopholes in the system.
One mod to rule them all and in the darkness ban them - Lord of the Mods "I am the Mod Reborn!" - masterlegobuilders I'm the real boss
I'll be honest. I just goggled it and saw what it said on the wiki and tolkien gateway. Since I didn't have the time in to look it up in the books. I think it said that it was when Gandalf was talking to Frodo in Rivendell. So that would be in the beging of Meny Meetings.
Ah. Eh. if Tolkien Gateway says it, I'm willing to believe it.
So, with both robotics and debate ending in about two weeks, and since I don't see this RP being finished in less than two weeks, it looks like I might get the time again to rejoin. I'll probably just stay in this RP for now, and not join the Fourth-age RP, but that could change later. Of course, if nobody has any issues with it, I would like to return to my position at Erebor. I mean, I've technically been leader of it for only the past four years or so.
I already said I would like to lead Erebor, but I will switch to Dale and be 2ic of Erebor under you.
Yeah, I saw that after I posted my thing. I would appreciate that. But at the same time, I have been leader of it ever since the original owner officially retired, so I suppose I could let you take over if you really wanted to lead Erebor.
I don't think they where since Gandalf said that Sauron had Werewolves, and trolls, and orcs in his army's. I didn't say we should have them, I just thought that it would be ok for balince. But we could also make Beornings more a counter to Trolls.
Well. . . Don't you thinks 10,000 Trees and Ents are enough of a counter to trolls not to mention that you guys always insist that trolls can be destroyed by arrows (their are numerous places in the movies where they show that some trolls have completely arrow-resistant skin.). Oh yeah, and they're "weak to javelins". and then of course a scorpion/catapult or any other seige weapon could destroy one. I think we have enough of a counter to trolls. Also, if their was one skin-changer in the Hobbit, their would be one in the Lord of the Rings. having a sub-HQ in that area might not be bad, but no skin-changers unless gundabad gets Werewolves and men.
The Ents aren't there as a counter to the Trolls so much in the sense that they're there to defeat the Trolls, but to rather be Good's equivalent of them. Regardless of what ideas we may come up with, there's no denying that Trolls are very unique units, and nothing can really be compared to them besides the Ents. And just as Trolls have many weaknesses (varying by what they're equipped with) besides the Ents, the Ents have many weaknesses outside of Trolls (fire, for example, would be absolutely devastating against Ents, especially if there are no significant sources of water nearby).
Werewolves are, I think, a reasonable unit for Gundabad based upon the evidence that we have of Werewolves serving Sauron at this time (I did find the part where Gandalf said that, in "Many Meetings"). I'm not so sure about Men though. I know of no evidence that Men ever occupied Gundabad, though I know for sure it was inhabited by Orcs. Uruk-hai may be acceptable for it, and I see no disadvantage to having them as opposed to Men (especially when you also have the Werewolves with them, and lesser Orcs at Dol Guldur).
Alright, yeah, but any crafty RPer would still do the same, it just means they can regen a few as well in the garrison of another/same region.
So, perhaps it should be the next 3000 MWE you lose in battle are non regenerable to completely negate being able to hide them? I suggest the other HQ (opposite side) has to hold it, not under siege for two weeks at least.
That's what Kitkat said. And what do you mean, hold it without it being under siege for two weeks? a captured sub-HQ is going to be way more difficult to be not under siege. It's 10,000 MWE to that side. I'd be surprised if their is ever a time when at least one isn't under attack.
That's for re-gaining the troop bonus. In order for you to regain your unregenerable boost in troops, then enemy will have to capture the HQ, and then hold it for two weeks without being under attack. Attacking and recapturing it within the two weeks would cause you to only get the raised troop limit, not the additional three thousand MWE bonus.
Wait, sorry, I accidentally counted to wrong post. I knew it was a little bit longer than that. But still, mine's more condensed vertically than yours.
I was trying to be easy on the moderators.
Ok, should I post a vote?
Here is what I think we should have if we have a vote.
Dorwonion: Trader HQ, few Avari and more northmen.
Esgaroth: Lakemen HQ
Anduin/Gladin Fields: Beorning: HQ. Or we could move it farther north and make it a Eorlingas: HQ
Or maybe. Rhovanion: Vidugavian HQ.
Ok sounds good.
I don't think we're quite at that point yet, but probably soon.
Well, since we're talking about votes and whatnot, I might as well bring this up.
Technically, I'm probably the Rep of this RP, as well as the 4th Age one. I'm fine with that. However, I'm also not finding much time to get on here recently. So it might be better for the RP if we choose a different Rep for at least one of the two RPs.
So if anyone here is interested in the position, and seriously feels they have the necessary qualifications for it, feel free to volunteer. As the Dep, Bobby would have precedence, but I'm guessing he's in the same boat as myself. Obviously, this RP will take some time to put together, but I just wanted to put this out there for everyone to think about. Thanks!
The day of prosperity makes one forget adversity; The day of adversity makes one forget prosperity.
