War Beasts: worth 25 A Great Beast with a small group of Orcs on top. 2 heavily armored orcs ride atop driving it, and 8 other heavily armored orcs ride it, with longbows. The Great Beast itself has been draped in the skins of trolls and others of its kind as "armor"
Stampedes: Worth 25 A Great Beast, armored like the War Beasts, with a "Spreader" on top. A Spreader is a modified scorpion that is 100% anti-infantry. It shoots rocks in a 25 degree spread. It is mounted in such a way that it can swivel. Only heavily armored orcs driving the beast and manning the Spreader are available on this unit.
Panther: Worth 25
A Great Beast, armored like the War Beasts, with a special catapult on top. Instead of normal ammo, it fires a projectile similar to those of the Dol Guldur Heavy Ballista, but it looks more like a catapult (note that the range of this machine is minimal, probably a bit more than a scorpion.). 2 heavily armored archers ride with the 2 drivers and the crew of the "punturer"
As you can see, their is a theme to all three of these, seen in the first three words. Any problems to these new units?
The first one seems good, though I would say probably don't use longbows. Smaller bows or Jalvilans would be fine, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to have Armored orcs firing Longbows from beast back. And maybe lighten the orcs armor.
Stampedes seem ok. I want to see what others say about this but I don't see any imeatite problems with it.
Panther. Um... my first thought is no. I would say probably not.
The Beasts that pulled Grond. They are large, and would essentially be similar to Oliphaunts in how they would be used under normal circumstanses. Trust me, I wish their was another name for them as well, because their is Great Beasts, Fell Beasts, Oliphaunts, Trolls, Ents, Eagles, Werewolves, Balrogs and probably more insane things that can fit the term of "Great Beast" in this franchise. Also, if you had tried searching up Great Beast LOTR, you should have found some stuff on them.
I feel as though you've explained this before...
Either I have or Kitkat has.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
War Beasts: worth 25 A Great Beast with a small group of Orcs on top. 2 heavily armored orcs ride atop driving it, and 8 other heavily armored orcs ride it, with longbows. The Great Beast itself has been draped in the skins of trolls and others of its kind as "armor"
Stampedes: Worth 25 A Great Beast, armored like the War Beasts, with a "Spreader" on top. A Spreader is a modified scorpion that is 100% anti-infantry. It shoots rocks in a 25 degree spread. It is mounted in such a way that it can swivel. Only heavily armored orcs driving the beast and manning the Spreader are available on this unit.
Panther: Worth 25
A Great Beast, armored like the War Beasts, with a special catapult on top. Instead of normal ammo, it fires a projectile similar to those of the Dol Guldur Heavy Ballista, but it looks more like a catapult (note that the range of this machine is minimal, probably a bit more than a scorpion.). 2 heavily armored archers ride with the 2 drivers and the crew of the "punturer"
As you can see, their is a theme to all three of these, seen in the first three words. Any problems to these new units?
The first one seems good, though I would say probably don't use longbows. Smaller bows or Jalvilans would be fine, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to have Armored orcs firing Longbows from beast back. And maybe lighten the orcs armor.
Stampedes seem ok. I want to see what others say about this but I don't see any imeatite problems with it.
Panther. Um... my first thought is no. I would say probably not.
OK. then Smaller bows. And It's the same armor that my Heavy Archers are in, the heaviest armor you can have for archers.
Great!
Why not? Would a normal Scorpion work on it?
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
War Beasts: worth 25 A Great Beast with a small group of Orcs on top. 2 heavily armored orcs ride atop driving it, and 8 other heavily armored orcs ride it, with longbows. The Great Beast itself has been draped in the skins of trolls and others of its kind as "armor"
Stampedes: Worth 25 A Great Beast, armored like the War Beasts, with a "Spreader" on top. A Spreader is a modified scorpion that is 100% anti-infantry. It shoots rocks in a 25 degree spread. It is mounted in such a way that it can swivel. Only heavily armored orcs driving the beast and manning the Spreader are available on this unit.
Panther: Worth 25
A Great Beast, armored like the War Beasts, with a special catapult on top. Instead of normal ammo, it fires a projectile similar to those of the Dol Guldur Heavy Ballista, but it looks more like a catapult (note that the range of this machine is minimal, probably a bit more than a scorpion.). 2 heavily armored archers ride with the 2 drivers and the crew of the "punturer"
As you can see, their is a theme to all three of these, seen in the first three words. Any problems to these new units?
The first one seems good, though I would say probably don't use longbows. Smaller bows or Jalvilans would be fine, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to have Armored orcs firing Longbows from beast back. And maybe lighten the orcs armor.
Stampedes seem ok. I want to see what others say about this but I don't see any imeatite problems with it.
Panther. Um... my first thought is no. I would say probably not.
The Panther needs to be 30 worth, besides that everything is good.
The first one seems good, though I would say probably don't use longbows. Smaller bows or Jalvilans would be fine, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to have Armored orcs firing Longbows from beast back. And maybe lighten the orcs armor.
Stampedes seem ok. I want to see what others say about this but I don't see any imeatite problems with it.
Panther. Um... my first thought is no. I would say probably not.
OK. then Smaller bows. And It's the same armor that my Heavy Archers are in, the heaviest armor you can have for archers.
Great!
Why not? Would a normal Scorpion work on it?
What type is it? I would say chainmail is fine and maybe a plate or scale breastplate. but not full plate armor.
Um. Have you ever heard of fireing siege weapons from the back of a animal? Lets see what the others say. But it should be atleast worth more.
The first one seems good, though I would say probably don't use longbows. Smaller bows or Jalvilans would be fine, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to have Armored orcs firing Longbows from beast back. And maybe lighten the orcs armor.
Stampedes seem ok. I want to see what others say about this but I don't see any imeatite problems with it.
Panther. Um... my first thought is no. I would say probably not.
The Panther needs to be 30 worth, besides that everything is good.
Why? The Panther is probably worse than the others, because it's more of meant for destroying walls then anything. The 2 other orcs are more meant because it IS less. If you want I can take the archers off.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
OK. then Smaller bows. And It's the same armor that my Heavy Archers are in, the heaviest armor you can have for archers.
Great!
Why not? Would a normal Scorpion work on it?
What type is it? I would say chainmail is fine and maybe a plate or scale breastplate. but not full plate armor.
Um. Have you ever heard of fireing siege weapons from the back of a animal? Lets see what the others say. But it should be atleast worth more.
In truth, I don't believe that anyone has actually asked that question. Ask kitkat, he might remember any conversations we had about this.
Yes. but still, It's 25 already. Better than the Heavily Armored Trolls. That's a huge amount already. Only the Mumakil are larger (although I think they are way overpriced. 50 for a un-manned Oliphaunt seems like no-one would take the time). Also add that the Great Beasts look like giant Rhinos, not elephants, meaning they aren't worth anywhere near as much themselves against unitry. Also, the back of an Oliphaunt is big enough for a larger ballista, even if it isn't the biggest of them. Great Beasts are slightly smaller, but not much.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
What type is it? I would say chainmail is fine and maybe a plate or scale breastplate. but not full plate armor.
Um. Have you ever heard of fireing siege weapons from the back of a animal? Lets see what the others say. But it should be atleast worth more.
In truth, I don't believe that anyone has actually asked that question. Ask kitkat, he might remember any conversations we had about this.
Yes. but still, It's 25 already. Better than the Heavily Armored Trolls. That's a huge amount already. Only the Mumakil are larger (although I think they are way overpriced. 50 for a un-manned Oliphaunt seems like no-one would take the time). Also add that the Great Beasts look like giant Rhinos, not elephants, meaning they aren't worth anywhere near as much themselves against unitry. Also, the back of an Oliphaunt is big enough for a larger ballista, even if it isn't the biggest of them. Great Beasts are slightly smaller, but not much.
No, I don't recall any detailed discussions on this matter. But personally, I'd have to agree with 8L at least mostly (I don't know all of the details of these Great Beasts, so some of this may or may not apply). Chainmail is definitely acceptable, no questions abut that. I also see no problem with a plate chestplate, and probably at least part of the arms and legs. However, I would recommend full plate simply because of how much it reduces one's flexibility. With most mounted units, a rider needs to be able to twist their body and generally be able to move easily in order to control their mount and to deal with shifting weight and force, not to mention that more weight means they'll be slower. Again, I don't know if this will apply to the Great Beasts, because I don't know how the Orcs ride them exactly, but that's how I see it for most mounted units.
How is your heavy ballista again? I would make your Panthers a little bit more expensive than your base heavy ballista (probably about five to fifteen more). Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Great Beasts are significantly smaller than Oliphaunts. Based upon the relevant scenes in RotK (since the movies are the most detail we have on these matters), the Great Beasts are roughly twice as tall as Men, or are something like four-legged Trolls (similar in height, but much longer). Oliphaunts, on the other hand, are easily four times bigger than even the Great Beasts (comparing them to cavalry), probably at least six or seven times the height.
In truth, I don't believe that anyone has actually asked that question. Ask kitkat, he might remember any conversations we had about this.
Yes. but still, It's 25 already. Better than the Heavily Armored Trolls. That's a huge amount already. Only the Mumakil are larger (although I think they are way overpriced. 50 for a un-manned Oliphaunt seems like no-one would take the time). Also add that the Great Beasts look like giant Rhinos, not elephants, meaning they aren't worth anywhere near as much themselves against unitry. Also, the back of an Oliphaunt is big enough for a larger ballista, even if it isn't the biggest of them. Great Beasts are slightly smaller, but not much.
No, I don't recall any detailed discussions on this matter. But personally, I'd have to agree with 8L at least mostly (I don't know all of the details of these Great Beasts, so some of this may or may not apply). Chainmail is definitely acceptable, no questions abut that. I also see no problem with a plate chestplate, and probably at least part of the arms and legs. However, I would recommend full plate simply because of how much it reduces one's flexibility. With most mounted units, a rider needs to be able to twist their body and generally be able to move easily in order to control their mount and to deal with shifting weight and force, not to mention that more weight means they'll be slower. Again, I don't know if this will apply to the Great Beasts, because I don't know how the Orcs ride them exactly, but that's how I see it for most mounted units.
How is your heavy ballista again? I would make your Panthers a little bit more expensive than your base heavy ballista (probably about five to fifteen more). Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Great Beasts are significantly smaller than Oliphaunts. Based upon the relevant scenes in RotK (since the movies are the most detail we have on these matters), the Great Beasts are roughly twice as tall as Men, or are something like four-legged Trolls (similar in height, but much longer). Oliphaunts, on the other hand, are easily four times bigger than even the Great Beasts (comparing them to cavalry), probably at least six or seven times the height.
It's a 30 foot large animal, and they have something similar to what the Oliphaunts have (which are 40 feet) (though nowhere near as extensive, those can hold 20 men easily in their moving tower set-ups) on their backs, allowing them to have as much armor and movability as normal ground troops. Yes, they would need to deal with the shifting weight still, but that would be a matter of training in this case, not manueberability.
How is your heavy ballista? I don't get what you mean by this. The Panthers are about that much more (the 20 for the heavy ballista, and yes that's on the small side, but a heavy ballista wouldn't be much use in this situation compared to the Spreader.
I actually did as extensive research as I could, and found the sizes on Lord of the wiki's or whatever that site is called (I looked it up before making these units, and saved most of the pertinent info). To cover my ground bases, I also looked at the Mumakil, though I only read through basic information.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
OK, I'm probably just tired and not remembering, but ... what exactly is a "great beast" again? Do you mean a Fell beast? Or is this something else that I forgot from the old RP?
I'll probably offer some critique, once I figure that out first.
The Beasts that pulled Grond. They are large, and would essentially be similar to Oliphaunts in how they would be used under normal circumstanses. Trust me, I wish their was another name for them as well, because their is Great Beasts, Fell Beasts, Oliphaunts, Trolls, Ents, Eagles, Werewolves, Balrogs and probably more insane things that can fit the term of "Great Beast" in this franchise. Also, if you had tried searching up Great Beast LOTR, you should have found some stuff on them.
OK, now I found 'em. Usually, if I can't come up with a LOTR name, I search for it on TG. For whatever reason, they didn't come up, although there is an article for them there.
Anyways, this really isn't my thing, so I'll let you hash it out with 8L and Kat.
The day of prosperity makes one forget adversity; The day of adversity makes one forget prosperity.
Here are some basic units, I am working on better ones, but it takes time to make good units.
Infantry:
Gondor Infantry. Worth 1 Plate armor, shield, sword, side arm. As seen in the movies. Good troops meant to hold the line. Do well in formations, but fall quickly if formation is broken up. Come in spear and Pike variations too.
Axemen of Llossarnach. Worth 2 Chain-mail armor with plate breastplate, two-handed axe, sidearm. Shock-troops recruited from the hills of Lossarnach. Meant to break a line not to hold one. Does well against heavy armored opponents due to their heavy axes.
Tower Guard. Worth 4 Heavy Plate Armor, Spear, Sword, shield. Elite troops given the honor of guarding the Tower of Ecthelion. Excellent at holding a line, and can hold their own one on one.
Fountain Guard. Worth 6 Very heavy plate armor, pike, sword, side arm. The best of the Gondorion Infantry, picked to guard the fountain and the White tree of Gondor. Armed with long pikes and swords, they can hold a gateway or a pass almost infinity if the enemy doesn't have archers. Cavalry will end poorly if they charge them head on while the Guard are in a pike wall. But their heavy armor and long pikes make them slow on the battlefield and week to flanking.
Archers:
Gondor Archers. Worth 1 Plate armor (though much lighter than the infantry). Bow, sword. Though heavly armored, they lack the range, firepower, and maneuverability of some archers. Yet they can hold their own in melee against lightly armed foes.
Blackroot Vail Archers. Worth 2 Light Chain mail armor, Longbow, sword. Good archers able to pour arrows at an enemy from long range. Though lightly armored they are skilled swordsmen and can hold out against lightly armed troops.
Ithilien Rangers. Worth 6 Chain Mail armor, stealth cloak, sword, Longbow, Sidearm. Stealthy troops that are used to fighting in the woods of Ithilien. Expert archers, and swordsmen, they excel at ambushes but will fall quickly if cought in melee against heavily armed troops or cavalry.
Cavalery. Scouts. Worth 1 Leather armor, buckler shield, lance, sidearm. Used as scouts and messengers for Gondor, they can be used for running down lightly armed troops such as archers, but will fall against more armored opponents and will not last against spear or pike-men.
Knights of Gondor. Worth 3 Plate armor, Lance, sword, sidearm. The best Cavalry of Gondor, they are skilled knights. They have a powerful charge, but are week if caught by heavy infantry.
No, I don't recall any detailed discussions on this matter. But personally, I'd have to agree with 8L at least mostly (I don't know all of the details of these Great Beasts, so some of this may or may not apply). Chainmail is definitely acceptable, no questions abut that. I also see no problem with a plate chestplate, and probably at least part of the arms and legs. However, I would recommend full plate simply because of how much it reduces one's flexibility. With most mounted units, a rider needs to be able to twist their body and generally be able to move easily in order to control their mount and to deal with shifting weight and force, not to mention that more weight means they'll be slower. Again, I don't know if this will apply to the Great Beasts, because I don't know how the Orcs ride them exactly, but that's how I see it for most mounted units.
How is your heavy ballista again? I would make your Panthers a little bit more expensive than your base heavy ballista (probably about five to fifteen more). Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Great Beasts are significantly smaller than Oliphaunts. Based upon the relevant scenes in RotK (since the movies are the most detail we have on these matters), the Great Beasts are roughly twice as tall as Men, or are something like four-legged Trolls (similar in height, but much longer). Oliphaunts, on the other hand, are easily four times bigger than even the Great Beasts (comparing them to cavalry), probably at least six or seven times the height.
It's a 30 foot large animal, and they have something similar to what the Oliphaunts have (which are 40 feet) (though nowhere near as extensive, those can hold 20 men easily in their moving tower set-ups) on their backs, allowing them to have as much armor and movability as normal ground troops. Yes, they would need to deal with the shifting weight still, but that would be a matter of training in this case, not manueberability.
How is your heavy ballista? I don't get what you mean by this. The Panthers are about that much more (the 20 for the heavy ballista, and yes that's on the small side, but a heavy ballista wouldn't be much use in this situation compared to the Spreader.
I actually did as extensive research as I could, and found the sizes on Lord of the wiki's or whatever that site is called (I looked it up before making these units, and saved most of the pertinent info). To cover my ground bases, I also looked at the Mumakil, though I only read through basic information.
I looked it up and apparently in the movies they where based on Megacerops. Which where 8.2 ft tall, and 16ft long. This thing might be slightly larger and bigger so maybe 10ft tall, and 20 ft long. So I would say it could easily hold about 8 men. And it should probably just be a platform and not the tower thing that the Mumakil have.
He means what is is like? I think he meant to say "What is your heavy ballista?"
I thank you for doing your research, if only everyone did before they post some unusual and unconventional unit
It's a 30 foot large animal, and they have something similar to what the Oliphaunts have (which are 40 feet) (though nowhere near as extensive, those can hold 20 men easily in their moving tower set-ups) on their backs, allowing them to have as much armor and movability as normal ground troops. Yes, they would need to deal with the shifting weight still, but that would be a matter of training in this case, not manueberability.
How is your heavy ballista? I don't get what you mean by this. The Panthers are about that much more (the 20 for the heavy ballista, and yes that's on the small side, but a heavy ballista wouldn't be much use in this situation compared to the Spreader.
I actually did as extensive research as I could, and found the sizes on Lord of the wiki's or whatever that site is called (I looked it up before making these units, and saved most of the pertinent info). To cover my ground bases, I also looked at the Mumakil, though I only read through basic information.
I looked it up and apparently in the movies they where based on Megacerops. Which where 8.2 ft tall, and 16ft long. This thing might be slightly larger and bigger so maybe 10ft tall, and 20 ft long. So I would say it could easily hold about 8 men. And it should probably just be a platform and not the tower thing that the Mumakil have.
He means what is is like? I think he meant to say "What is your heavy ballista?"
I thank you for doing your research, if only everyone did before they post some unusual and unconventional unit
So. . . You're saying that we're listening to the Movie, rather than the Book? that sounds. . . Like what we NEVER do. And the info I've found about the book version is a 30 foot tall monster. If you really want, a 20 foot tall compromise should be fine. Yes it's a platform on top, but my point was that their is a limit of something the essential mass/size of the tower thing, not that it has one.
That still makes no sense. It's a Heavy ballista. It's a large ballista mounted on a beast.
Yeah well, I am almost as critical as you and Kitkat IRL, I just don't criticize people about that stuff (partially so I don't accidentally sound like a hypocrite myself )
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
I looked it up and apparently in the movies they where based on Megacerops. Which where 8.2 ft tall, and 16ft long. This thing might be slightly larger and bigger so maybe 10ft tall, and 20 ft long. So I would say it could easily hold about 8 men. And it should probably just be a platform and not the tower thing that the Mumakil have.
He means what is is like? I think he meant to say "What is your heavy ballista?"
I thank you for doing your research, if only everyone did before they post some unusual and unconventional unit
So. . . You're saying that we're listening to the Movie, rather than the Book? that sounds. . . Like what we NEVER do. And the info I've found about the book version is a 30 foot tall monster. If you really want, a 20 foot tall compromise should be fine. Yes it's a platform on top, but my point was that their is a limit of something the essential mass/size of the tower thing, not that it has one.
That still makes no sense. It's a Heavy ballista. It's a large ballista mounted on a beast.
Yeah well, I am almost as critical as you and Kitkat IRL, I just don't criticize people about that stuff (partially so I don't accidentally sound like a hypocrite myself )
MM, I just re-read that section in ROTK. It says nothign about the size of Great Beasts, only that they were large enough to haul Grond and cause chaos among the orcs who were guarding it. But I'd say 20 ft. sounds fine.
The day of prosperity makes one forget adversity; The day of adversity makes one forget prosperity.