I thought so too until you said you had the problem, and the rest of my internet was fine.
OOC: I still have my land army. Hidden and away from any valar who would wish to destroy them
Remember this is the imperial fleet of Umbar and would have the best tech and equipment avable to Umbar.
Ok. How are my battle ships being attacked from the rear, they are protected by the island.
IC *10 of my destroyers attack your firgates, and the rest either burn your destroyers or pull up along your destroyers and board*
OOC2: Battleship move will be in reply to EE*
I know mine is internet; it's been happening for days.
OOC: I have a land army too.
True, but putting more than minimal tech on Destroyers would slow them down,a nd due to lack of armour they'd be sunk.
*Shurgs* You and EE can work it out.
IC: *6 Frigates go down, taking 8 of your Destroyers with them.*
OOC: Have you placed ground troops on your Detsroyers? You have to in order to board other ships. Anyway:
IC: *My Destroyers all focus their fire on yours. Your ships are soon sunk, but 5 of my Destroyers also go down.*
OOC: Would you say that's fair? We're both losing equal NWE at the battles.
Oh, mines been fine, maybe a little bit slow, I suppose that's what happens when you have three people on the internet at once, and they are streaming video and audio for classes/work, and I'm trying to do this. But today the typing was awful.
OOC: That was in the ocean and drowned.
Slightly, and the pumps are rather light. Its lighter than armor, and helps them last much longer.
We will...hopefully.
IC: *the other two take out your remaining frigate, which destroys one of them.*
OOC: A few marines.
IC: *Before their ships are sunk, the men board your ships and capture 8 of your destroyers*
OOC: Pretty fair, the trick in war is to loose less N/MWE than your opposition.
I know mine is internet; it's been happening for days.
OOC: I have a land army too.
True, but putting more than minimal tech on Destroyers would slow them down,a nd due to lack of armour they'd be sunk.
*Shurgs* You and EE can work it out.
IC: *6 Frigates go down, taking 8 of your Destroyers with them.*
OOC: Have you placed ground troops on your Detsroyers? You have to in order to board other ships. Anyway:
IC: *My Destroyers all focus their fire on yours. Your ships are soon sunk, but 5 of my Destroyers also go down.*
OOC: Would you say that's fair? We're both losing equal NWE at the battles.
Oh, mines been fine, maybe a little bit slow, I suppose that's what happens when you have three people on the internet at once, and they are streaming video and audio for classes/work, and I'm trying to do this. But today the typing was awful.
OOC: That was in the ocean and drowned.
Slightly, and the pumps are rather light. Its lighter than armor, and helps them last much longer.
We will...hopefully.
IC: *the other two take out your remaining frigate, which destroys one of them.*
OOC: A few marines.
IC: *Before their ships are sunk, the men board your ships and capture 8 of your destroyers*
OOC: Pretty fair, the trick in war is to loose less N/MWE than your opposition.
OOC: No it wasn't, it's sitting in the transports. I doubt your people even know it's here.
I shall let the RPR handle this.
IC: *A Battleship sails in and sinks the Destroyer.*
OOC: OK. When did you put them in?
IC: *The crews disable the rudder chains before fleeing, rendering the captured shops unmovable. A man shouts from another Destroyer,*
''Ahoy there! You have some ships that cannot be moved without time. You cannot. We have the ability to sink those ships. But we don't want to. So how about you swim over to those Battleships, or allow yourselves to be taken prisoner? If you do not comply, we will sink the ships you have taken.''
8legos, he's right, there are no pumps, and I don't see how you are pumping burning oil that far. It just isn't possible, even today it would be hard to do
Ever herd of the Byzantines flamethrower? They had one, if you will allow me I could get you a picture of it. OR you could goggle it and about half way down the Wikipedia articil on greek fire there is a picture. Besides its not that far, maybe 100 meters?
Speeking of pictures, could you maybe go look at my post in the talk to the staff about that? Thanks!
I looked at it, and it looks far to complex for the RP, not to mention that it borders on OP. I wouldn't even use it with the dwarves, and they have a pretty high tech level. I personally object to all use of pumps in the RP as there is NO mention of them in the books, nor do they appear advanced enough to have them. It also doesn't look like it could fire very far, at most 20 - 30 feet. If anymore I don't know what your using to operate the hand pump
I've seen it, and I will bring it up with the team later
One mod to rule them all and in the darkness ban them - Lord of the Mods "I am the Mod Reborn!" - masterlegobuilders I'm the real boss
8legos, he's right, there are no pumps, and I don't see how you are pumping burning oil that far. It just isn't possible, even today it would be hard to do
Ever herd of the Byzantines flamethrower? They had one, if you will allow me I could get you a picture of it. OR you could goggle it and about half way down the Wikipedia articil on greek fire there is a picture. Besides its not that far, maybe 100 meters?
Speeking of pictures, could you maybe go look at my post in the talk to the staff about that? Thanks!
Hi, I'm here.
First, I just want to point out that Greek Fire is, and always has been, considered OP, and thus outlawed. If I'm correct, however, you're simply using a similar apparatus, but different material.
That being said, I read some of the article you mentioned. While the concept of pumps was not out of reach of the ancients, and they may even have had them, they probably were not very effective. The Wikipedia article on Greek fire doesn't give a range for the apparatus used, but it does mention a modern reconstruction of said apparatus. It had an effective range of 15 meters--a bit of your suggested 100 meters.
So I suppose the technology is possible, but in practicality, it wouldn't be nearly as effective as you'd need it to be. Ofc, this really isn't my forte; KitKat would probably be able to offer a far better answer than I could.
The day of prosperity makes one forget adversity; The day of adversity makes one forget prosperity.
Ever herd of the Byzantines flamethrower? They had one, if you will allow me I could get you a picture of it. OR you could goggle it and about half way down the Wikipedia articil on greek fire there is a picture. Besides its not that far, maybe 100 meters?
Speeking of pictures, could you maybe go look at my post in the talk to the staff about that? Thanks!
I looked at it, and it looks far to complex for the RP, not to mention that it borders on OP. I wouldn't even use it with the dwarves, and they have a pretty high tech level. I personally object to all use of pumps in the RP as there is NO mention of them in the books, nor do they appear advanced enough to have them. It also doesn't look like it could fire very far, at most 20 - 30 feet. If anymore I don't know what your using to operate the hand pump
I've seen it, and I will bring it up with the team later
The pump isn't that complicated just pressurizes it and allows it to shoot out. I should at least have hand siphons right? Ok I was wrong, I looked it up and the range was only around 50ft, which Isn't that much of a problem.
Oh, mines been fine, maybe a little bit slow, I suppose that's what happens when you have three people on the internet at once, and they are streaming video and audio for classes/work, and I'm trying to do this. But today the typing was awful.
OOC: That was in the ocean and drowned.
Slightly, and the pumps are rather light. Its lighter than armor, and helps them last much longer.
We will...hopefully.
IC: *the other two take out your remaining frigate, which destroys one of them.*
OOC: A few marines.
IC: *Before their ships are sunk, the men board your ships and capture 8 of your destroyers*
OOC: Pretty fair, the trick in war is to loose less N/MWE than your opposition.
OOC: No it wasn't, it's sitting in the transports. I doubt your people even know it's here.
I shall let the RPR handle this.
IC: *A Battleship sails in and sinks the Destroyer.*
OOC: OK. When did you put them in?
IC: *The crews disable the rudder chains before fleeing, rendering the captured shops unmovable. A man shouts from another Destroyer,*
''Ahoy there! You have some ships that cannot be moved without time. You cannot. We have the ability to sink those ships. But we don't want to. So how about you swim over to those Battleships, or allow yourselves to be taken prisoner? If you do not comply, we will sink the ships you have taken.''
OOC: Which is what I'm doing.
OOC: And your transports where destroyed by the lighting.
As you should.
OOC2: where did that battleship come from? Some ships where "assult ships" and didn't have the flame thrower, but had some light armor, are what was boarding your ships. Per boat, 40 corsairs, 1 MWE, 5 Blackguard, worth 2 MWE.
OOC3: Are your boats steered by rudders or by steering oars?
OOC: No it wasn't, it's sitting in the transports. I doubt your people even know it's here.
I shall let the RPR handle this.
IC: *A Battleship sails in and sinks the Destroyer.*
OOC: OK. When did you put them in?
IC: *The crews disable the rudder chains before fleeing, rendering the captured shops unmovable. A man shouts from another Destroyer,*
''Ahoy there! You have some ships that cannot be moved without time. You cannot. We have the ability to sink those ships. But we don't want to. So how about you swim over to those Battleships, or allow yourselves to be taken prisoner? If you do not comply, we will sink the ships you have taken.''
OOC: Which is what I'm doing.
OOC: And your transports where destroyed by the lighting.
As you should.
OOC2: where did that battleship come from? Some ships where "assult ships" and didn't have the flame thrower, but had some light armor, are what was boarding your ships. Per boat, 40 corsairs, 1 MWE, 5 Blackguard, worth 2 MWE.
OOC3: Are your boats steered by rudders or by steering oars?
IC *paused untill replyed to aboce*
OOC4: Oh really?
OOC: Oh really.
OOC2: The remainder of my fleet is sitting just out of range . It came from there.
Also, Destroyers are worth 20 NWE. You might be able to squeeze 15-20 men on the, at the very most. 45, no way.
OOC3: Rudders. We may not be advanced enough for pumps, but we're past giant rowboats. Oars are highly impractical at this size of ship. For a boost in speed, yes, but steering with them would be very hard.
OOC: And your transports where destroyed by the lighting.
As you should.
OOC2: where did that battleship come from? Some ships where "assult ships" and didn't have the flame thrower, but had some light armor, are what was boarding your ships. Per boat, 40 corsairs, 1 MWE, 5 Blackguard, worth 2 MWE.
OOC3: Are your boats steered by rudders or by steering oars?
IC *paused untill replyed to aboce*
OOC4: Oh really?
OOC: Oh really.
OOC2: The remainder of my fleet is sitting just out of range . It came from there.
Also, Destroyers are worth 20 NWE. You might be able to squeeze 15-20 men on the, at the very most. 45, no way.
OOC3: Rudders. We may not be advanced enough for pumps, but we're past giant rowboats. Oars are highly impractical at this size of ship. For a boost in speed, yes, but steering with them would be very hard.
OOC4: indeed.
OOC: Yes, I ment your WHOLE fleet.
OOC2: I thought the rest of your fleet was on the north side with your transports?
Mine are based off of Byzantine dromon (Since that's what tolkien said that the Umbarim had) which are around 100 ft long, and around 20 ft long and can hold up to 60 men.
OOC3: Destroyers are pretty much galleys, which use both oars and sails, and use either steering oars and rudders.
*The Gondorian fleet sails south down the east side of the island, eventually coming around behind the Corsair ships. They form the following formation:*
F B D F D F B S D F D F B S D F D F B S D F D F B S D F F B
D = Destroyer F = Frigate B = Battleship S = Siege ship
*As soon as they are in range, the Battleships, frigates, and Siege ships begin firing everything they've got into the heart of your formation. The destroyers speed ahead, heading towards the rear of your ships.*
*My ships turn to face and focus on your destroyers destroying many.*
*Suddenly a volley of flaming arrows, and bolts/boulders rain down from behind your ships destroying and burning many.*
OOC2: The remainder of my fleet is sitting just out of range . It came from there.
Also, Destroyers are worth 20 NWE. You might be able to squeeze 15-20 men on the, at the very most. 45, no way.
OOC3: Rudders. We may not be advanced enough for pumps, but we're past giant rowboats. Oars are highly impractical at this size of ship. For a boost in speed, yes, but steering with them would be very hard.
OOC4: indeed.
OOC: Yes, I ment your WHOLE fleet.
OOC2: I thought the rest of your fleet was on the north side with your transports?
Mine are based off of Byzantine dromon (Since that's what tolkien said that the Umbarim had) which are around 100 ft long, and around 20 ft long and can hold up to 60 men.
OOC3: Destroyers are pretty much galleys, which use both oars and sails, and use either steering oars and rudders.
OOC: Really.
OOC: They're north of our position. I'm assuming we're on the west side of the island, as otherwise we'd be fighting the Anduin too.
In that case, I'm pretty sure it's not a Destroyer. I'd expect a ship that can hold 60 men to be at least 40-60 NWE.
OOC3: Similar, but they cannot be the same. As they're worth 20 NWE, I'd say they have a crew of around 10. As they are combat ships, they cannot have many men steering.
Ever herd of the Byzantines flamethrower? They had one, if you will allow me I could get you a picture of it. OR you could goggle it and about half way down the Wikipedia articil on greek fire there is a picture. Besides its not that far, maybe 100 meters?
Speeking of pictures, could you maybe go look at my post in the talk to the staff about that? Thanks!
I looked at it, and it looks far to complex for the RP, not to mention that it borders on OP. I wouldn't even use it with the dwarves, and they have a pretty high tech level. I personally object to all use of pumps in the RP as there is NO mention of them in the books, nor do they appear advanced enough to have them. It also doesn't look like it could fire very far, at most 20 - 30 feet. If anymore I don't know what your using to operate the hand pump
I've seen it, and I will bring it up with the team later
Someone summoned me?
So you guys are arguing about pumps, correct? And for both the uses of disposing of bilge water and propelling oil? Personally, I don't think hand pumps are much of an issue. From what I understand, the first one was invented somewhere around 250 B.C., so it seems likely that at least someone in Middle-earth (probably ship crews/builders) would have something of the sort. A basic hand pump is quite simple: you have a piston attached to a shaft that sticks out the top, and two one-way flaps on the sides of the cylinder. You honestly don't even need to seal it particularly well (which would be the hardest part) for it to work, so long as you don't mind a small loss in efficiency. Archimedes' screw was also invented at around the same time (or perhaps even earlier in Egypt or Assyria), and is perfectly well suited to pumping water out of a ship. I don't see a problem with having a bilge pump of some sort in a ship. The issues that I see are when you start having to deal with elevated pressures and the whole fire thing. For these Greek-fire pumps (which, I will point out, the article said could only fire about fifteen meters), the entire system relies upon getting enough pressure inside the container to force the oil out quickly enough to launch it any reasonable distance. That means that you're probably going to be going over a hundred PSI, which won't be easy to seal, particularly in the pump itself. Most of the joints would be easy as you just cover them with a bit of molten metal, and even the valves will seal themselves when under pressure if you have something for them to seal with (any sort of rubber, or probably something else that we'd have here); but I don't see how they'd get the piston to seal fully. To seal the piston, you'd need something flexible that can rub against the cylinder wall, but still stiff enough that it won't just let all of the pressure out. You could mostly seal it, especially if it was being used for unpressurized water, but I doubt you'd be able to seal it against air at over a hundred PSI. While a poor seal will work for getting water out of the bilge, the slightest leak will completely fail a pressurized system like the one used for throwing oil. As for the whole fire-throwing thing, well, you guys should know by now. I don't know exactly how 8L's works (that is, the fire itself) but you guys should know all of our limitations on fire, so I'll leave that part between you.