Star Wars: The Last Jedi is getting a lot of hate. And I'm here to find out why.
All I see on the Internet are vague reasons that seem like they should be mild annoyances at worst, as well as crazy senseless reasons that essentially boil down specific wants and expectations that weren't fulfilled.
So I am here to understand. And to defend an excellent film.
Firstly, it plays like an essay written without the draft. It goes on a tangent from the last film. The fans ask who Snoke is, and Disney goes "IDK, we're too lazy to write him a backstory, so we'll just kill him off". The fans ask who Rey's parents are... Disney hadn't planned that either, so they give us the whole drunk parent thing. THE HYPE IS REAL!
Seriously, someone wrote this the night before it was due. Contract a writer for the entire trilogy and at the very least you'll get consistent characters. What happened to the whole "everybody loves Rey square"? Stormboy, the Red Teletubbie and Manchild Ren all seemed to fancy Rey in JarJar's film. Now Stormboy likes Rose (a women who tied him up and stunned him), Red Teletubbie is too busy showing off to Leia and Purple Hair whilst Ren is trying too hard to be all conflicted and stuff. And then there is Luke. Mark Hamill is disgusted with Disney's treatment of Luke. Need I say more.
It's too drawn out because it's so dialogue heavy. What ever happened to show, don't tell? It's honestly the second thing you learn in story-telling. The first being character development. Something the "writers" (term used loosely) forgot.
It's also incredibly camp, far more camp than the originals. For instance, the Red Teletubbie in the X-Wing is just dumb. The multiple looks of awe the characters give is silly. Looking in awe isn't going to impress me. I'm not impressed that Miss Sue can lift a bunch of rocks.
HOPE, HOPE, HOPE, HOPE, HOPE. Yes we get it. There is no hope that the endless referrals to ANH will get older fans to like this film. It's having a laugh at those who loved the originals... And maybe even the prequels. We've been aged out of the 2.5 hour toy advertisements. I think I'll just stick to reading fanfictions, at least they admit that they're fanfictions.
However, the one good thing about this film is that I didn't pay to see it. Thank you for the popcorn McDonald's, I thoroughly enjoyed hearing my manager burst out laughing at the Yoda puppet who spent far too much time in Oscar the Grouch's bin. That's probably all I can say as I don't remember the finer points of the film... If there were any finer points.
I totally agree. Also Im pretty sure the Yoda in the last Jedi doesnt even count as a force ghost as he wasnt even see through and was more like a luminous muppet character or something radioactivly charged. I also dont think it was the original puppet. As well what really anoyed me about the film was that Han wasnt given a proper funeral and that Luke and Leia hardly aknowledged his death other than that weird handing Leia the golden dice scene. Perhaps Luke thought they might bring Leia some luck if she wanted wanted to drown her sorrows in a little bit of light gambling on canto bight. Those dice might as well of been the Falcons incense card on a string for all the audience knows about that object yet, though I feel they may have been the dice used by Han to win the Falcon from Lando
Star Wars: The Last Jedi is getting a lot of hate. And I'm here to find out why.
All I see on the Internet are vague reasons that seem like they should be mild annoyances at worst, as well as crazy senseless reasons that essentially boil down specific wants and expectations that weren't fulfilled.
So I am here to understand. And to defend an excellent film.
Firstly, it plays like an essay written without the draft. It goes on a tangent from the last film. The fans ask who Snoke is, and Disney goes "IDK, we're too lazy to write him a backstory, so we'll just kill him off". The fans ask who Rey's parents are... Disney hadn't planned that either, so they give us the whole drunk parent thing. THE HYPE IS REAL!
Seriously, someone wrote this the night before it was due. Contract a writer for the entire trilogy and at the very least you'll get consistent characters. What happened to the whole "everybody loves Rey square"? Stormboy, the Red Teletubbie and Manchild Ren all seemed to fancy Rey in JarJar's film. Now Stormboy likes Rose (a women who tied him up and stunned him), Red Teletubbie is too busy showing off to Leia and Purple Hair whilst Ren is trying too hard to be all conflicted and stuff. And then there is Luke. Mark Hamill is disgusted with Disney's treatment of Luke. Need I say more.
It's too drawn out because it's so dialogue heavy. What ever happened to show, don't tell? It's honestly the second thing you learn in story-telling. The first being character development. Something the "writers" (term used loosely) forgot.
It's also incredibly camp, far more camp than the originals. For instance, the Red Teletubbie in the X-Wing is just dumb. The multiple looks of awe the characters give is silly. Looking in awe isn't going to impress me. I'm not impressed that Miss Sue can lift a bunch of rocks.
HOPE, HOPE, HOPE, HOPE, HOPE. Yes we get it. There is no hope that the endless referrals to ANH will get older fans to like this film. It's having a laugh at those who loved the originals... And maybe even the prequels. We've been aged out of the 2.5 hour toy advertisements. I think I'll just stick to reading fanfictions, at least they admit that they're fanfictions.
However, the one good thing about this film is that I didn't pay to see it. Thank you for the popcorn McDonald's, I thoroughly enjoyed hearing my manager burst out laughing at the Yoda puppet who spent far too much time in Oscar the Grouch's bin. That's probably all I can say as I don't remember the finer points of the film... If there were any finer points.
Red Teletubbie? Who is that supposed to be? Po? Oh, I see what you did there...
Firstly, it plays like an essay written without the draft. It goes on a tangent from the last film. The fans ask who Snoke is, and Disney goes "IDK, we're too lazy to write him a backstory, so we'll just kill him off". The fans ask who Rey's parents are... Disney hadn't planned that either, so they give us the whole drunk parent thing. THE HYPE IS REAL!
Seriously, someone wrote this the night before it was due. Contract a writer for the entire trilogy and at the very least you'll get consistent characters. What happened to the whole "everybody loves Rey square"? Stormboy, the Red Teletubbie and Manchild Ren all seemed to fancy Rey in JarJar's film. Now Stormboy likes Rose (a women who tied him up and stunned him), Red Teletubbie is too busy showing off to Leia and Purple Hair whilst Ren is trying too hard to be all conflicted and stuff. And then there is Luke. Mark Hamill is disgusted with Disney's treatment of Luke. Need I say more.
It's too drawn out because it's so dialogue heavy. What ever happened to show, don't tell? It's honestly the second thing you learn in story-telling. The first being character development. Something the "writers" (term used loosely) forgot.
It's also incredibly camp, far more camp than the originals. For instance, the Red Teletubbie in the X-Wing is just dumb. The multiple looks of awe the characters give is silly. Looking in awe isn't going to impress me. I'm not impressed that Miss Sue can lift a bunch of rocks.
HOPE, HOPE, HOPE, HOPE, HOPE. Yes we get it. There is no hope that the endless referrals to ANH will get older fans to like this film. It's having a laugh at those who loved the originals... And maybe even the prequels. We've been aged out of the 2.5 hour toy advertisements. I think I'll just stick to reading fanfictions, at least they admit that they're fanfictions.
However, the one good thing about this film is that I didn't pay to see it. Thank you for the popcorn McDonald's, I thoroughly enjoyed hearing my manager burst out laughing at the Yoda puppet who spent far too much time in Oscar the Grouch's bin. That's probably all I can say as I don't remember the finer points of the film... If there were any finer points.
I totally agree. Also Im pretty sure the Yoda in the last Jedi doesnt even count as a force ghost as he wasnt even see through and was more like a luminous muppet character or something radioactivly charged. I also dont think it was the original puppet. As well what really anoyed me about the film was that Han wasnt given a proper funeral and that Luke and Leia hardly aknowledged his death other than that weird handing Leia the golden dice scene. Perhaps Luke thought they might bring Leia some luck if she wanted wanted to drown her sorrows in a little bit of light gambling on canto bight. Those dice might as well of been the Falcons incense card on a string for all the audience knows about that object yet, though I feel they may have been the dice used by Han to win the Falcon from Lando
It's not the original. The original was used in Episode I but it looked like trash after all these years, so they CGIed it. This one is based on the original but was filmed digitally and not on analog film, so it looks all wrong. Probably news to some, but its only recently that digital technology "caught up" to analog film. Thus, a lot of films are still filmed in analog. Analog is also more like what the human eye sees.
Yeah, that's true. They kinda just glossed over that. Isn't this film supposed to occur directly after the last? Surely there would be a funeral or some sort of mourning period for their fallen hero.
I totally agree. Also Im pretty sure the Yoda in the last Jedi doesnt even count as a force ghost as he wasnt even see through and was more like a luminous muppet character or something radioactivly charged. I also dont think it was the original puppet. As well what really anoyed me about the film was that Han wasnt given a proper funeral and that Luke and Leia hardly aknowledged his death other than that weird handing Leia the golden dice scene. Perhaps Luke thought they might bring Leia some luck if she wanted wanted to drown her sorrows in a little bit of light gambling on canto bight. Those dice might as well of been the Falcons incense card on a string for all the audience knows about that object yet, though I feel they may have been the dice used by Han to win the Falcon from Lando
It's not the original. The original was used in Episode I but it looked like trash after all these years, so they CGIed it. This one is based on the original but was filmed digitally and not on analog film, so it looks all wrong. Probably news to some, but its only recently that digital technology "caught up" to analog film. Thus, a lot of films are still filmed in analog. Analog is also more like what the human eye sees.
Yeah, that's true. They kinda just glossed over that. Isn't this film supposed to occur directly after the last? Surely there would be a funeral or some sort of mourning period for their fallen hero.
The Yoda puppet in episode 1 cant be the one in the originals because he was designed to look younger. He also doesn't resemble the original.
Personally it felt like a mess, an utter mess that made little sense, let's get off with the little things:
1) The relationship between Finn and Rose is dull, it was spicy at first but it felt dull after a while.
2) Little to no lore, no explanation for anything, sure people harp on the prequels but they were great for lore building there were future possibilities for it, this movie murdered lore, I mean sure it could be intresting to see who ben solo took with him and what came of them, but that's about it, and snore just dies, like who even is he, how is he in power?
3) The First Order should be the under dog, not the powerful intergalactic power house it is, the resistance should be the new republic beating down this little authoritarian nuscence, which I'm theory shouldn't exist because there is no explanation to its existence or rise to power, what did the galaxy give up on itself and they were the last to care? Total mess.
4) Rey is a Mary sue, a Mary sue is a character that is great at everything and anything, these characters are a symbol of bad writing and rey is the most prominent example, she is just randomly good at everything, because the force said yeah you should be, she matched Kylo Ren's force power, with basically no training and in the last episode defeated kylo with no lightsaber training, Vader was scary Vader was one to destroy, and it humanised Luke, here well there is no emotion from Rey, or either of them.
5) 4 good roles, and that's Carrie Fisher as Leia, Adam Driver as Kylo Ren , Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker and Peter Mayhew / Joonas Suotam as Chewbacca. All great roles filled by great characters, except Carrie Fisher is dead in real life, luke died in the end, and that leaves us with chewy who is there for comedic effect and to be the loveable action here, aswell as adam driver who is the only really lore character.
So in short that's what I think.
3. As Death-Star-Three as it was, you do realize that they destroyed pretty much the entire New Republic in the last movie, right? TLJ couldn't do anything to change what happened in the last one, so now the First Order should be the bigger faction.
Star Wars: The Last Jedi is getting a lot of hate. And I'm here to find out why.
All I see on the Internet are vague reasons that seem like they should be mild annoyances at worst, as well as crazy senseless reasons that essentially boil down specific wants and expectations that weren't fulfilled.
So I am here to understand. And to defend an excellent film.
Firstly, it plays like an essay written without the draft. It goes on a tangent from the last film. The fans ask who Snoke is, and Disney goes "IDK, we're too lazy to write him a backstory, so we'll just kill him off". The fans ask who Rey's parents are... Disney hadn't planned that either, so they give us the whole drunk parent thing. THE HYPE IS REAL!
Seriously, someone wrote this the night before it was due. Contract a writer for the entire trilogy and at the very least you'll get consistent characters. What happened to the whole "everybody loves Rey square"? Stormboy, the Red Teletubbie and Manchild Ren all seemed to fancy Rey in JarJar's film. Now Stormboy likes Rose (a women who tied him up and stunned him), Red Teletubbie is too busy showing off to Leia and Purple Hair whilst Ren is trying too hard to be all conflicted and stuff. And then there is Luke. Mark Hamill is disgusted with Disney's treatment of Luke. Need I say more.
It's too drawn out because it's so dialogue heavy. What ever happened to show, don't tell? It's honestly the second thing you learn in story-telling. The first being character development. Something the "writers" (term used loosely) forgot.
It's also incredibly camp, far more camp than the originals. For instance, the Red Teletubbie in the X-Wing is just dumb. The multiple looks of awe the characters give is silly. Looking in awe isn't going to impress me. I'm not impressed that Miss Sue can lift a bunch of rocks.
HOPE, HOPE, HOPE, HOPE, HOPE. Yes we get it. There is no hope that the endless referrals to ANH will get older fans to like this film. It's having a laugh at those who loved the originals... And maybe even the prequels. We've been aged out of the 2.5 hour toy advertisements. I think I'll just stick to reading fanfictions, at least they admit that they're fanfictions.
However, the one good thing about this film is that I didn't pay to see it. Thank you for the popcorn McDonald's, I thoroughly enjoyed hearing my manager burst out laughing at the Yoda puppet who spent far too much time in Oscar the Grouch's bin. That's probably all I can say as I don't remember the finer points of the film... If there were any finer points.
Golly Hugh, you think you might be overstating things a bit?
The Snoke thing was an excellent twist, I agree with Johnson on the fact that having him explain his true origins is just unnecessary to the actual plot. Sure, it would be cool to know who he was, but would it really advance the story? No. Would it even add an extra emotional layer? Not really. None of the characters around now even know who Darth Plagueis is, so if he was him, it would be cool for us but wouldn't really add anything to the characters' journeys. If it was the Emperor, it would kind of ruin the ending of Episode VI. Anyone else either wouldn't make sense or just wouldn't matter at all.
And Rey's parents? Johnson and Abrams actually had the same idea for this, so don't say that it isn't consistent storytelling. Don't forget, when J.J. read the script for TLJ, he said he wished he could direct it because it was so good. It was not drastically different from what he wanted as everyone seems to be implying when they complain about its "inconsistency." Also, don't forget he was an executive producer on it as well.
Your nicknames for Poe, Finn, and Kylo don't make much sense, but okay. Also, the only one who fancied Rey in TFA was Finn, who still shows signs of this in TLJ. Poe and Rey never even met in VII, and all Kylo did was torture her. So, that argument doesn't really make much sense. Also, Mark was not "disgusted" with Luke in this film. He was just surprised by how different he was. He said that when he first read the script, he told Rian that he "fundamentally diagreed" with his character arc. Eventually, though, he came to understand Rian's vision and work with it. I don't think he would have been able to give his most emotional performance in the franchise if he really still HATED the whole thing as much as people try to maintain. You have to remember that people (even Jedi) change a bit over the course of 30-40 years.
There was definitely a lot of visual storytelling in this film. In fact, probably more so than in most Star Wars films. I don't understand this argument. There was also a lot of character development, especially with Rey and Kylo, as well as Luke, Poe, and Finn.
It's not the original. The original was used in Episode I but it looked like trash after all these years, so they CGIed it. This one is based on the original but was filmed digitally and not on analog film, so it looks all wrong. Probably news to some, but its only recently that digital technology "caught up" to analog film. Thus, a lot of films are still filmed in analog. Analog is also more like what the human eye sees.
Yeah, that's true. They kinda just glossed over that. Isn't this film supposed to occur directly after the last? Surely there would be a funeral or some sort of mourning period for their fallen hero.
The Yoda puppet in episode 1 cant be the one in the originals because he was designed to look younger. He also doesn't resemble the original.
Firstly, it plays like an essay written without the draft. It goes on a tangent from the last film. The fans ask who Snoke is, and Disney goes "IDK, we're too lazy to write him a backstory, so we'll just kill him off". The fans ask who Rey's parents are... Disney hadn't planned that either, so they give us the whole drunk parent thing. THE HYPE IS REAL!
Seriously, someone wrote this the night before it was due. Contract a writer for the entire trilogy and at the very least you'll get consistent characters. What happened to the whole "everybody loves Rey square"? Stormboy, the Red Teletubbie and Manchild Ren all seemed to fancy Rey in JarJar's film. Now Stormboy likes Rose (a women who tied him up and stunned him), Red Teletubbie is too busy showing off to Leia and Purple Hair whilst Ren is trying too hard to be all conflicted and stuff. And then there is Luke. Mark Hamill is disgusted with Disney's treatment of Luke. Need I say more.
It's too drawn out because it's so dialogue heavy. What ever happened to show, don't tell? It's honestly the second thing you learn in story-telling. The first being character development. Something the "writers" (term used loosely) forgot.
It's also incredibly camp, far more camp than the originals. For instance, the Red Teletubbie in the X-Wing is just dumb. The multiple looks of awe the characters give is silly. Looking in awe isn't going to impress me. I'm not impressed that Miss Sue can lift a bunch of rocks.
HOPE, HOPE, HOPE, HOPE, HOPE. Yes we get it. There is no hope that the endless referrals to ANH will get older fans to like this film. It's having a laugh at those who loved the originals... And maybe even the prequels. We've been aged out of the 2.5 hour toy advertisements. I think I'll just stick to reading fanfictions, at least they admit that they're fanfictions.
However, the one good thing about this film is that I didn't pay to see it. Thank you for the popcorn McDonald's, I thoroughly enjoyed hearing my manager burst out laughing at the Yoda puppet who spent far too much time in Oscar the Grouch's bin. That's probably all I can say as I don't remember the finer points of the film... If there were any finer points.
Golly Hugh, you think you might be overstating things a bit?
The Snoke thing was an excellent twist, I agree with Johnson on the fact that having him explain his true origins is just unnecessary to the actual plot. Sure, it would be cool to know who he was, but would it really advance the story? No. Would it even add an extra emotional layer? Not really. None of the characters around now even know who Darth Plagueis is, so if he was him, it would be cool for us but wouldn't really add anything to the characters' journeys. If it was the Emperor, it would kind of ruin the ending of Episode VI. Anyone else either wouldn't make sense or just wouldn't matter at all.
And Rey's parents? Johnson and Abrams actually had the same idea for this, so don't say that it isn't consistent storytelling. Don't forget, when J.J. read the script for TLJ, he said he wished he could direct it because it was so good. It was not drastically different from what he wanted as everyone seems to be implying when they complain about its "inconsistency." Also, don't forget he was an executive producer on it as well.
Your nicknames for Poe, Finn, and Kylo don't make much sense, but okay. Also, the only one who fancied Rey in TFA was Finn, who still shows signs of this in TLJ. Poe and Rey never even met in VII, and all Kylo did was torture her. So, that argument doesn't really make much sense. Also, Mark was not "disgusted" with Luke in this film. He was just surprised by how different he was. He said that when he first read the script, he told Rian that he "fundamentally diagreed" with his character arc. Eventually, though, he came to understand Rian's vision and work with it. I don't think he would have been able to give his most emotional performance in the franchise if he really still HATED the whole thing as much as people try to maintain. You have to remember that people (even Jedi) change a bit over the course of 30-40 years.
There was definitely a lot of visual storytelling in this film. In fact, probably more so than in most Star Wars films. I don't understand this argument. There was also a lot of character development, especially with Rey and Kylo, as well as Luke, Poe, and Finn.
Nope.
I’m not disappointed that Snoke wasn’t Plagueis. He’s was a paper-thin character with no personality, no background and no reason for being bad. But now that you mention it, Ren would know who Plagueis was. If it was Snoke, Ren might even pick his mind to resurrect his own family members. That would add an extra Leia.
It’s consistent that they are both boring storytellers. I’d lie about mine and my friend’s work being good too. The original script was scrapped. It’s all PR. Hence why Hamill apologised for his TLJ hate. He likely broke the terms of his contract. Old man needs toy royalties for his retirement.
Those are good nicknames. Especially Poe's. He's as silly as a man in a red suit.
Whoops, I must have dreamed about the Poe/Rey part. I did fall asleep during my sole viewing of TFA. Heh, it would be more interesting that way. It was apparently in the book though. As for Ren/Rey, well a lot of other people can see chemistry between them. Either as lovers/lost siblings/whatever. Why else would she care to “turn” him so much?
Of course, people change all of the time. Just not Obi and Yoda who had been through genocide and came out pretty much the same. Whereas Luke’s “reason” (term used loosely) for being a cynic is because his nephew dabbled in the dark side. That’s lame, especially considering his background. He saved his horrendously evil father, but wont even attempt to save his curious and naive nephew? That's not something Luke would do.
Nah, actors are paid to act. They are taught to turn their personal struggles into onfilm emotion (something that should be abolished... causes mental illness). Perhaps Hamill used his distaste for TLJ to convey Luke’s feelings of cynicism. Not sure what he was doing during the attempted assassination scene. That was weird. <- Surely we can agree on that.
Rey didn't grow, she’s already perfect. Ren’s still not sure whether he can fully accept the dark side, Poe is still impulsive and Luke… Well you know. Finn is the only one who developed, he developed a new crush and that's about as far as character development goes.
TLJ was a cruel joke. A sign which says "adults not welcome, toy revenue only".
Golly Hugh, you think you might be overstating things a bit?
The Snoke thing was an excellent twist, I agree with Johnson on the fact that having him explain his true origins is just unnecessary to the actual plot. Sure, it would be cool to know who he was, but would it really advance the story? No. Would it even add an extra emotional layer? Not really. None of the characters around now even know who Darth Plagueis is, so if he was him, it would be cool for us but wouldn't really add anything to the characters' journeys. If it was the Emperor, it would kind of ruin the ending of Episode VI. Anyone else either wouldn't make sense or just wouldn't matter at all.
And Rey's parents? Johnson and Abrams actually had the same idea for this, so don't say that it isn't consistent storytelling. Don't forget, when J.J. read the script for TLJ, he said he wished he could direct it because it was so good. It was not drastically different from what he wanted as everyone seems to be implying when they complain about its "inconsistency." Also, don't forget he was an executive producer on it as well.
Your nicknames for Poe, Finn, and Kylo don't make much sense, but okay. Also, the only one who fancied Rey in TFA was Finn, who still shows signs of this in TLJ. Poe and Rey never even met in VII, and all Kylo did was torture her. So, that argument doesn't really make much sense. Also, Mark was not "disgusted" with Luke in this film. He was just surprised by how different he was. He said that when he first read the script, he told Rian that he "fundamentally diagreed" with his character arc. Eventually, though, he came to understand Rian's vision and work with it. I don't think he would have been able to give his most emotional performance in the franchise if he really still HATED the whole thing as much as people try to maintain. You have to remember that people (even Jedi) change a bit over the course of 30-40 years.
There was definitely a lot of visual storytelling in this film. In fact, probably more so than in most Star Wars films. I don't understand this argument. There was also a lot of character development, especially with Rey and Kylo, as well as Luke, Poe, and Finn.
Nope.
I’m not disappointed that Snoke wasn’t Plagueis. He’s was a paper-thin character with no personality, no background and no reason for being bad. But now that you mention it, Ren would know who Plagueis was. If it was Snoke, Ren might even pick his mind to resurrect his own family members. That would add an extra Leia.
It’s consistent that they are both boring storytellers. I’d lie about mine and my friend’s work being good too. The original script was scrapped. It’s all PR. Hence why Hamill apologised for his TLJ hate. He likely broke the terms of his contract. Old man needs toy royalties for his retirement.
Those are good nicknames. Especially Poe's. He's as silly as a man in a red suit.
Whoops, I must have dreamed about the Poe/Rey part. I did fall asleep during my sole viewing of TFA. Heh, it would be more interesting that way. It was apparently in the book though. As for Ren/Rey, well a lot of other people can see chemistry between them. Either as lovers/lost siblings/whatever. Why else would she care to “turn” him so much?
Of course, people change all of the time. Just not Obi and Yoda who had been through genocide and came out pretty much the same. Whereas Luke’s “reason” (term used loosely) for being a cynic is because his nephew dabbled in the dark side. That’s lame, especially considering his background. He saved his horrendously evil father, but wont even attempt to save his curious and naive nephew? That's not something Luke would do.
Nah, actors are paid to act. They are taught to turn their personal struggles into onfilm emotion (something that should be abolished... causes mental illness). Perhaps Hamill used his distaste for TLJ to convey Luke’s feelings of cynicism. Not sure what he was doing during the attempted assassination scene. That was weird. <- Surely we can agree on that.
Rey didn't grow, she’s already perfect. Ren’s still not sure whether he can fully accept the dark side, Poe is still impulsive and Luke… Well you know. Finn is the only one who developed, he developed a new crush and that's about as far as character development goes.
TLJ was a cruel joke. A sign which says "adults not welcome, toy revenue only".
I just don't really appreciate extreme unwarranted negativity, that's all. Even if you don't like it, there's no reason to act this way.
"He’s was a paper-thin character with no personality, no background and no reason for being bad." So was the Emperor in the OT. 'Nuff said.
I don't understand the thing about resurrecting family, especially since Leia didn't die. But okay.
I don't think the original script was scrapped, but even if it was, isn't that a good thing? That would just mean revisions and improvisations. Although, as I said, I don't think that was the case, so that argument could easily be used against me.
The nicknames are just an extra silly way to be overly negative in a rude fashion. I say it's unmerited.
Yeah, of course there's the whole "Reylo" fanbase, but I don't want to have anything to do with that. And as for why she would want to turn him, I don't know, maybe just wanting one less Force user on the bad guys' side? Makes sense to me.
Besides the fact that Prequel Yoda and OT Yoda are actually quite different, the whole point is that Luke saw the errors of the Jedi and that's why he's changed. The reason for his cynicism was recognition of his own failure, not Kylo's, which is actually very noble. He did some research and found out that the Jedi were not all they were cracked up to be. And he told Rey that he wasn't either. He was human just like everyone else, and he failed. And he actually said, in the exact same flashback where he explained that tiny moment of unnerving distrust of Kylo, that it was "the briefest moment of pure instinct," and "it passed like a fleeting shadow." He hadn't been plotting to sneak in and murder Ben in his sleep, it was just an instant of fear. This is, in my opinion, the least merited complaint against TLJ, that against Luke's character. You shouldn't expect him to be the exact same character he was when you last saw him at the end of RotJ 30 years ago!
My least merited argument against you may have been about Mark Hamill. Of course I should have known you would say he was forced to take back what he said about the story. But he did say (very informally, mind you) that he really hopes there's some way for him to help with the next one, even if he isn't playing Luke, because he enjoys it. He said something like, "Even if I'm just catering, I want to be there somehow." (obviously super-paraphrased, but I know he said catering)
Okay, now to address character growth. I don't know how you can say there wasn't any.
Rey totally grew, and she struggled a lot in this movie. I think you're just focusing on her exceptional Force powers and saying she's a Mary Sue for no other reason than that. She fails ALL THE TIME in TLJ. She fails to understand Luke and his teachings, she fails to resist the call of the Dark Side, she blindly falls into a trap set by the First Order, she fails to turn Kylo, and she's completely bested by Snoke. Pretty much the only things she succeeds in are fighting the guards, shooting down a couple TIE Fighters, and lifting some rocks.
"Ren’s still not sure whether he can fully accept the dark side..." I'm sorry, what? He has completely embraced the Dark Side by the end of this movie! In the beginning he's deciding not to smash his mom, by the end he's leading the entire First Order against Crait, screaming orders to Hux, and letting anger course through his veins in the final standoff. If that's not character growth, I don't know what is. And don't tell me we didn't see how he got there, the movie does a great job of showing us that. He's probably the most interesting character of the bunch.
Poe learns lessons about leadership, Luke learns to learn from failure and ends up doing exactly what he initially said he wouldn't do, and Finn goes from just trying to protect Rey to being fully devoted to the Resistance's cause and willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good (until you-know-who stops him, which, ugh, is the only real issue I have with the movie).
Star Wars: The Last Jedi is getting a lot of hate. And I'm here to find out why.
All I see on the Internet are vague reasons that seem like they should be mild annoyances at worst, as well as crazy senseless reasons that essentially boil down specific wants and expectations that weren't fulfilled.
So I am here to understand. And to defend an excellent film.
Firstly, it plays like an essay written without the draft. It goes on a tangent from the last film. The fans ask who Snoke is, and Disney goes "IDK, we're too lazy to write him a backstory, so we'll just kill him off". The fans ask who Rey's parents are... Disney hadn't planned that either, so they give us the whole drunk parent thing. THE HYPE IS REAL!
Seriously, someone wrote this the night before it was due. Contract a writer for the entire trilogy and at the very least you'll get consistent characters. What happened to the whole "everybody loves Rey square"? Stormboy, the Red Teletubbie and Manchild Ren all seemed to fancy Rey in JarJar's film. Now Stormboy likes Rose (a women who tied him up and stunned him), Red Teletubbie is too busy showing off to Leia and Purple Hair whilst Ren is trying too hard to be all conflicted and stuff. And then there is Luke. Mark Hamill is disgusted with Disney's treatment of Luke. Need I say more.
It's too drawn out because it's so dialogue heavy. What ever happened to show, don't tell? It's honestly the second thing you learn in story-telling. The first being character development. Something the "writers" (term used loosely) forgot.
It's also incredibly camp, far more camp than the originals. For instance, the Red Teletubbie in the X-Wing is just dumb. The multiple looks of awe the characters give is silly. Looking in awe isn't going to impress me. I'm not impressed that Miss Sue can lift a bunch of rocks.
HOPE, HOPE, HOPE, HOPE, HOPE. Yes we get it. There is no hope that the endless referrals to ANH will get older fans to like this film. It's having a laugh at those who loved the originals... And maybe even the prequels. We've been aged out of the 2.5 hour toy advertisements. I think I'll just stick to reading fanfictions, at least they admit that they're fanfictions.
However, the one good thing about this film is that I didn't pay to see it. Thank you for the popcorn McDonald's, I thoroughly enjoyed hearing my manager burst out laughing at the Yoda puppet who spent far too much time in Oscar the Grouch's bin. That's probably all I can say as I don't remember the finer points of the film... If there were any finer points.
So you want Disney to blindly follow fans’ ideas?
Since when do we listen to actors’ opinions on Star War? Alec Guinness hated Star Wars.
Movies need dialog. I don’t see how this is a complaint.
I have no clue how to respond to this ridiculous paragraph.
You’re thinking of Rogue One, right? They pushed HOPE a lot in that one. I didn’t see much in TLJ.
Umm... what?
Ignore everything I say, to the best of your ability.
(1) Yeah, I can see where you're coming from there. It was a bit unrealistic how quickly that she got over him trying to abandon them after praising him to kissing him at the end. If it were a bit extended, like into the next episode, I think that'd be a bit better.
(2)I agree with that. It gets a bit to the point of 'Uhh, what next??' but, then again, that might be something to keep you watching, 'what IS next?' It all just depends.
(3) Well, that might be something that IS a lore builder, I think they may do something with that, about how it did rise. Maybe a TV Series or even a Movie, kinda like Rouge One. I do understand the part about 'Why weren't they stopped? Wasn't the resistance Top Dog after the empire was defeated?' They're all questions that need to be answered, and is something that Star Wars will likely keep up their sleeve. It might make a bit of sense after it's made, but for now, It's all a bit of a blur. We need something to put it into perspective.
(4) That is an interesting way to put it. She is a bit like that.
(5) I'm hope we haven't seen the last of Luke and Leia and think they might continue their story a bit. We'll just have to wait and see.
Thanks for expressing your opinions, I really liked your points.
Just a note on the Rey is a Mary Sue thing, I think that is hardly fair. Rey makes many, many mistakes. Her big weakness is her desire for her family, and that really blurs her view of things. In The Last Jedi she becomes so convinced Kylo will turn good that she is fighting with Luke. Then she almost dies by foolishly going to The First Order because she thinks she can turn Kylo.
In The Force Awakens she wasn't perfect either. She made little mistakes, remember it was Rey's fault the Rathtors got out. They almost killed her and all her friends. She also was not very knowledgeable about the Force in TLJ, as we could see, when Luke slapped her with a leaf.
Luke very slowly developed his force powers. In episode IV, he could barely deflect blaster bolts with a lightsaber, only managing to do so after being given good advice from his mentor. The extent of the force abilities Luke shows in episode IV are calming down, and allowing the force to guide his actions. Apart from this, he is completely inept.
In episode V, we see that he still lacks training, which shows in his struggle to pull his lightsaber out of the snow when he gets kidnapped by a wampa. Later in the episode, Luke gets extensive training from Yoda, who actually teaches him lessons. In spite of this training, however, Luke still fails in key areas, such as not being able to lift objects of certain size, and literally losing his duel with Vader, only escaping through luck.
Only in episode VI do we see Luke has learned from his mistakes and developed as a character. He has undergone failure, hardship, loss, and possible embarrassment, but has finally, at the end of the story, developed into a powerful force user, but only after having made plenty of mistakes along the way, and only after being given plenty of guidance.
On the flip side, Rey is able to do things that other characters would be much more qualified to do... without any sort of prior training or experience. By no means would any person suddenly figure out how to use force persuasion without having actually seen the technique before, heck -- there was barely anything prior to that scene that suggested to her she was even sufficiently force-sensitive for that sort of thing. In the process: she ends up devaluing Han-Solo's own relationship with the Millenium Falcon as well as Luke's journey to becoming a jedi.
I could go on... but the Mary Sue-ish stuff is there, you just have to look for it.
I'm not here to rant or force my beliefs on others. So I am just going to leave my grievances here:
1. TFA too closely mirrors A New Hope. This isn't something I'm particularly mad about, but it's still disappointing.
2. Han Solo dies in the first movie.
3. Kylo Ren is really just an angsty teenager who has no business being the story's main antagonist.
4. Luke dies... and the movie manipulates your emotions as it goes about killing him. First of all: he shows up on salt-hoth to seemingly sacrifice himself to Kylo a-la Obi-Wan. Just when it is revealed he wasn't in real danger (because he was creating a force-projection), we relax for a moment, glad that he wasn't actually going to let Kylo kill him... except, apparently, he just disappears after having over-exerted himself... no. Just no. Besides -- if he could do that why not actually show up in person and unleash a much more destructive force-power? You know, actually end the conflict. Oh right, we still haven't done episode IX. Which is a good Segway into point V
5. TLJ uses scenes that would've worked well in IX, particularly the scene where Kylo betrays Snoke, and then fails to hit the story beats those scenes should have lead to, all for the sake of being 'subversive'.
6. Literally the only original character they don't kill off (not counting the ones they won't give proper screentime to, such as R2 and Chewbacca) is Leia... and as has been mentioned in this topic before, the actress who played her is gone, so... why preserve a character who won't be able to feature in the next movie, but also kill the one people actually wanted to see again?
7. The Rey's parents debacle is a blatant violation of the Chekov's gun principle.
8. We are led to believe that Luke, the same person who redeemed Darth Vader: almost went through with killing his own nephew just because he was showing signs of turning to the dark side. This is absurdly out of character for Luke, and is apparently the entire BASIS for the reason conflict exists in the first place.
I don't intend to push my thoughts on the movie on anyone else... but this topic does ask "why the hate?" and this is my answer to that question.
Personally it felt like a mess, an utter mess that made little sense, let's get off with the little things:
1) The relationship between Finn and Rose is dull, it was spicy at first but it felt dull after a while.
2) Little to no lore, no explanation for anything, sure people harp on the prequels but they were great for lore building there were future possibilities for it, this movie murdered lore, I mean sure it could be intresting to see who ben solo took with him and what came of them, but that's about it, and snore just dies, like who even is he, how is he in power?
3) The First Order should be the under dog, not the powerful intergalactic power house it is, the resistance should be the new republic beating down this little authoritarian nuscence, which I'm theory shouldn't exist because there is no explanation to its existence or rise to power, what did the galaxy give up on itself and they were the last to care? Total mess.
4) Rey is a Mary sue, a Mary sue is a character that is great at everything and anything, these characters are a symbol of bad writing and rey is the most prominent example, she is just randomly good at everything, because the force said yeah you should be, she matched Kylo Ren's force power, with basically no training and in the last episode defeated kylo with no lightsaber training, Vader was scary Vader was one to destroy, and it humanised Luke, here well there is no emotion from Rey, or either of them.
5) 4 good roles, and that's Carrie Fisher as Leia, Adam Driver as Kylo Ren , Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker and Peter Mayhew / Joonas Suotam as Chewbacca. All great roles filled by great characters, except Carrie Fisher is dead in real life, luke died in the end, and that leaves us with chewy who is there for comedic effect and to be the loveable action here, aswell as adam driver who is the only really lore character.
So in short that's what I think.
1. I agree. Rose annoyed me.
2. Midichlorians. Also, Snoke wasn’t special. In TFA he was a guy in a big hologram who led the First Order and was a Sith. They never set up a backstory. It’s your expectations. Disney don’t have to do anything for you.
3. Did you even watch TFA? Did you not see the scene where Bill Weasley screamed a bit and they BLEW UP THE SENATE AND REPUBLIC CAPITAL? A ton of exposition about the First Order would detract from any movie.
4. Rey is far from a Mary Sue. She is not perfect.
5. Disney did not plan for Carrie Fisher to die. Luke’s death was a powerful moment.
2) I don't see what's wrong with little explanation. The Originals had few explanations, and the Prequels overexplained things (think midi-chlorians). If everything eas explained, some of the magic of Star Wars would be lost.
3) So you just prefer your own ideas? That's fine, but you shouldn't dislike TLJ for that, especially since it was TFA that set up the First Order as the more powerful faction, not TLJ.
4) Rey is not a Mary Sue. She has flaws. She is too trustworthy, for one thing, and too optimistic. Her only real skills, from what I've seen, are melee combat, piloting, and understanding languages.
5) Unfortunately, the studio could not predict Carrie's death. And I'm not seeing any evidence that those are the only good roles.
2. Ofcourse, but when there is so little lore in 152 minutes, you get a feeling of more questions than answers and not like complex questions like in the last one, such as: who are Reys parents? Who is snoke? How are these new characters related to everyone? But no: You end up with questions like: Why did Luke suddenly die? Why was this movie so dull and boring? Why are there no more positive characters who aren't super boring? (Aside from Kylo, and Leia (But Carrie Fisher is dead))
3. Yes, it was set up by TFA, also no I don't prefer my own ideas, I would like an explanation or some logic put into this, why are they so powerful, this makes absolutely NO SENSE, atleast based on the lore we have so far.
4. Too optimistic isn't a flaw, and too trustworthy just shows shes inexperienced (only redeeming quality, if that), being optimistic is the same as say oh: person X is not a Mary sue, there main fault is they are too amazing.
5. Rey - Mary Sue Rose - useless fell good character with no inherint value Finn - now that I think about Finn has character development, but he is so bland and uninteresting, in TLJ they might aswell have killed him off in the last movie Poe - just makes everything worse, he isn't a cool rebel, he feels stupider than a stick. DJ - was cool, but too mysterious for anyone too care, people would care if he actually looked good (A new Boba Fett)
2. Why would Rey’s parents need to be anyone special? There are more than ten people in Star Wars. They don’t all need to be related. As I said, no one needs to know who Snoke is. They aren’t related to everyone. You want them to be. That question should answer itself. It isn’t dull and boring unless you dislike Star Wars. How are they boring?
3. TFA set up nothing. You built up expectations in your own head.
4. Yes, it is.
5. Dealt with. Fair. If they killed Finn, he would’ve been even more pointless. TFA - Flees. Helps Resistance. Sacrifices himself. TLJ - Flees. Helps Resistance. Nearly sacrifices himself. How? DJ was barely relevant.
We'll just have to wait and see.
