First let me start off by giving an explanation. The way we RP, if you think about it, isn't very effective. There is no way for anybody to actually win or lose. The only way for that to happen is if somebody decided to give up or surrender. But such a thing is a rare occurrence. And because of this, there is no real point to the RP. Yes, I said it. The point of this RP is completely and utterly pointless. But that is all about to change. Emy and I have created a system that will bring meaning, competition, and fun to the RP.
Here is the HP Method: Everybody, no matter their status, rank, or experience, is given a "Baseline Health Point" which is 500. This means that at any given time, you have 500 HP. Certain things can increase or decrease this however, such as armor.
When in battle, you and your opponent are given specific abilities, called Action Sets, which will take away part of your opponents HP, increase your own HP, or something other special affect. They are as follows:
Neutral Force Moves: - Force Push: -100 HP - Force Slash: -75 HP - Kick: -50 HP - Force Protection Bubble: Evade next two moves. - Force Heal: +100 HP - Force Choke: -50 HP - Dodge: Evade Attack. - Block: +20 HP (No DMG taken) - Counter: 25 DMG Opponent Loses 25 HP
Jedi Force Moves: - Force Repulse: -100 HP - Saberang: -150 HP - Force Blow: -100 HP - Blade Storm: -100 HP - White Lightning: -150 HP
Sith Force Moves: - Force Lightning: -150 HP - Deadly Sight: -150 HP - Force Insanity: -50 DMG By Opponent Next 2 Turns - Odojinya: Opponent Can't Use Force Moves For 2 Turns - Bolt of Hatred: -150 HP and User Removes -50 HP
What does this all mean? First off we have to remember that this does limit us to only 1 Move Per Turn. And you can only use 1 Ability every 3 moves. This is called the "Cool Down". Let's take for example, "Force Push -100HP". If I were to use this against my opponent, then my opponent would have to subtract 100 from their HP. Let's go through some other abilities:
Force Protection Bubble: Evade Next Two Moves, this means that if you were to use it, your opponent can not harm you for his/her next two turn. However, this also means that if you use this, you give up the option of using an attack in place of using it. It could look something like this:
Me: Uses Force Protection Bubble HP=500
Emy: Force Heal HP=600
Me: Slashes at you HP=500
Emy: Kicks you HP=550
Me: Force Push HP=500 (The Kick did no DMG)
If you chose to "Block" then your opponent's previous attack will deal no DMG and you will gain 20 HP. "Dodge" means that you take no DMG from your enemy's attack. Using "Counter" after an opponent's attack means you will only take 25 DMG, but your opponent will also take 25 DMG. "Force Insanity" means that your opponent will deal 50 DMG less than normal for his/her next two turns. "Odojinya" means your opponent can not use a Force power for his/her next two moves. "Bold of Hatred" deals 150 DMG to your opponent, but it also deals to 50 DMG to the user.
You might have noticed when I had the example battle up there, that each player had HP and their corresponding health level. This is to show the user's HP. At every turn, you should ALWAYS keep an updated HP stat at the end of your move.
Some things to remember are that you can only a each move once every 3 turns. This is to keep people from spamming their most powerful ability. You can only make one move per turn. ALWAYS keep an updated HP stat at the end of every move. You can only have one building chain at a time.
There are some things that can effect your character, such as Armors. Right now we have only Cloak, Light Armor, Enchanted Armor, and Heavy Armor. The stats are as follows:
Cloak: +100 HP Light Armor: +200HP Enchanted Armor: +300HP Heavy Armor: +400HP
What this means is if you have, for example, Light Armor, then when you start a battle, your HP is at 700 (Your 500 Baseline plus 200). To obtain these, you will have to start a Building Chain.
Cloak: 14% Per Day Light Armor: 7% Per Day Enchanted Armor: 3.5% Per Day Heavy Armor: 1.75% Per Day
Additional armor, weapons, abilities, and other stuff will be added later through the Official Planning Committee.
The Official Planning Committee the place where the System gets updated. The only people on the OPC is Emy and yours truly. Nobody can alter the method in any way without first passing it through the OPC.
-last edited on Aug 31, 2017 17:28:46 GMT by Shamrock
Post by Shamrock on Aug 31, 2017 17:27:57 GMT
...
No. Just...no.
I've said it before, I've said it again - this RP is supposed to be free. It is not supposed to be the most complicated RP on LMBE.
No that's said, let's get down to me tearing your suggestions apart.
First off, it makes it a pain to use moves; they have to be negotiated on before use. Only a fraction of moves are listed below. I can think of multiple moves in a few seconds that you haven't listed, and I am by no means an expert on all Force moves.
Secondly, with your system, moves have the same power regardless of who uses them. Let's use Force Push as an example. Some RPCs will have difficulty rolling a boulder, whilst some can knock buildings over without lifting a finger. Your proposed system would have the move inflicting the same damage regardless of whether the target is sent staggering or thrown through a brick wall by the attack. It's not realistic.
Thirdly, I don't see how this is going to help. If anything, it will half our numbers. Roleplay is supposed to be fun. Especially this one. We're not here to calculate health. This is the freest Roleplay on the boards. I fail to see how a Roleplay that won't even elect an FAC will cope with this; it's worse than the suggestion of money.
I've said it before, I've said it again - this RP is supposed to be free. It is not supposed to be the most complicated RP on LMBE.
No that's said, let's get down to me tearing your suggestions apart.
First off, it makes it a pain to use moves; they have to be negotiated on before use. Only a fraction of moves are listed below. I can think of multiple moves in a few seconds that you haven't listed, and I am by no means an expert on all Force moves.
Secondly, with your system, moves have the same power regardless of who uses them. Let's use Force Push as an example. Some RPCs will have difficulty rolling a boulder, whilst some can knock buildings over without lifting a finger. Your proposed system would have the move inflicting the same damage regardless of whether the target is sent staggering or thrown through a brick wall by the attack. It's not realistic.
Thirdly, I don't see how this is going to help. If anything, it will half our numbers. Roleplay is supposed to be fun. Especially this one. We're not here to calculate health. This is the freest Roleplay on the boards. I fail to see how a Roleplay that won't even elect an FAC will cope with this; it's worse than the suggestion of money.
Each move does not need to be negotiated on. They all have set values. And we haven't added everything to the it yet because we just wanted to get it out there for now. Worry not, everything will be added in.
Well that's not entirely true. You can upgrade your character with armor and other special thing that we have already been working on, to make your abilities, such as Force Push, more effective and do more damage.
I am sorry that you don't find this new way "fun", but don't knock it till you try it. And I have no idea what FAC means.
You keep saying the word "free". What do you mean by that? This isn't taking away any kind of freedoms.
I've said it before, I've said it again - this RP is supposed to be free. It is not supposed to be the most complicated RP on LMBE.
No that's said, let's get down to me tearing your suggestions apart.
First off, it makes it a pain to use moves; they have to be negotiated on before use. Only a fraction of moves are listed below. I can think of multiple moves in a few seconds that you haven't listed, and I am by no means an expert on all Force moves.
Secondly, with your system, moves have the same power regardless of who uses them. Let's use Force Push as an example. Some RPCs will have difficulty rolling a boulder, whilst some can knock buildings over without lifting a finger. Your proposed system would have the move inflicting the same damage regardless of whether the target is sent staggering or thrown through a brick wall by the attack. It's not realistic.
Thirdly, I don't see how this is going to help. If anything, it will half our numbers. Roleplay is supposed to be fun. Especially this one. We're not here to calculate health. This is the freest Roleplay on the boards. I fail to see how a Roleplay that won't even elect an FAC will cope with this; it's worse than the suggestion of money.
Each move does not need to be negotiated on. They all have set values. And we haven't added everything to the it yet because we just wanted to get it out there for now. Worry not, everything will be added in.
Well that's not entirely true. You can upgrade your character with armor and other special thing that we have already been working on, to make your abilities, such as Force Push, more effective and do more damage.
I am sorry that you don't find this new way "fun", but don't knock it till you try it. And I have no idea what FAC means.
You keep saying the word "free". What do you mean by that? This isn't taking away any kind of freedoms.
The value needs negotiation.
Our characters are already developed; they have certain power levels.
Fanon Approval Committee. Extremely basic addition to a Roleplay. We voted against one. I don't see how people will want to vote for this.
It takes away numerous freedoms. It takes away a user's freedom to choose how an attack affects their RPC (which violates the unspoken RP Rules). It takes away a user's freedom to vary the power of their attacks. It takes away a user's freedom to decide whether they use one, two, or three moves in a post. It takes away a user's freedom to choose how often they use a move. With our current system, I can just sit in a Force Protection Bubble and shoot Force Lightning for the entire battle if I want. It takes away a user's freedom to....
My only problem is that you should probally add/change a couple abilities. (what jedi would use choke)
Also what is white lightning?
Thanks Spyaz!
Okay, I know I have had this discussion with someone before There is no reason why Jedi can't use Force Choke. Luke uses it in Return of the Jedi when he goes into Jabba's Palace.
And White Lightning is the Jedi version of Force Lightning. It is fueled by love and compassion or something like that. But yes, new abilities will be added. There is actually a lot of things that we will be adding, but we didn't want to overload you guys with too much information at once.
Each move does not need to be negotiated on. They all have set values. And we haven't added everything to the it yet because we just wanted to get it out there for now. Worry not, everything will be added in.
Well that's not entirely true. You can upgrade your character with armor and other special thing that we have already been working on, to make your abilities, such as Force Push, more effective and do more damage.
I am sorry that you don't find this new way "fun", but don't knock it till you try it. And I have no idea what FAC means.
You keep saying the word "free". What do you mean by that? This isn't taking away any kind of freedoms.
The value needs negotiation.
Our characters are already developed; they have certain power levels.
Fanon Approval Committee. Extremely basic addition to a Roleplay. We voted against one. I don't see how people will want to vote for this.
It takes away numerous freedoms. It takes away a user's freedom to choose how an attack affects their RPC (which violates the unspoken RP Rules). It takes away a user's freedom to vary the power of their attacks. It takes away a user's freedom to decide whether they use one, two, or three moves in a post. It takes away a user's freedom to choose how often they use a move. With our current system, I can just sit in a Force Protection Bubble and shoot Force Lightning for the entire battle if I want. It takes away a user's freedom to....
Need I go on?
That is determined by the OPC, which is a very speedy service.
Okay so it is proposing a bit of a "reset". But we aren't saying you need to change your whole backstory, or saying that everyone starts out as padawans again. This just adds variety and ACTUAL power levels. The ones you think you use now are really just pretend.
I still don't understand. Voted against what? Extremely basic addition to a Roleplay? What does that mean?
No we aren't taking that away. Everybody still does whatever they want. If someone says "Uses Force Push" and the other guy says "*Gets flown back into a Wall*" They can still do that. The only difference is that the Force Push would ACTUALLY do damage to a person, not just "Oh you Force Pushed me? Okay. Well...instantly recovers! "
Yes it does mean that we are limited to 1 move per post. But in reality, its not like people would actually be able to do 3 separate things before their opponent does anything. So if anything, this is making it more realistic.
You could sit in a Force Protection Bubble and shoot Force Lightning for the entire battle if you wanted to the old way. But did that sound as boring to you as it did to me? You also just kinda proved my point. You could do that with the old way, and nothing would hurt you. Way too OP and unrealistic, and boring, and that also means that there is no winner.
Our characters are already developed; they have certain power levels.
Fanon Approval Committee. Extremely basic addition to a Roleplay. We voted against one. I don't see how people will want to vote for this.
It takes away numerous freedoms. It takes away a user's freedom to choose how an attack affects their RPC (which violates the unspoken RP Rules). It takes away a user's freedom to vary the power of their attacks. It takes away a user's freedom to decide whether they use one, two, or three moves in a post. It takes away a user's freedom to choose how often they use a move. With our current system, I can just sit in a Force Protection Bubble and shoot Force Lightning for the entire battle if I want. It takes away a user's freedom to....
Need I go on?
That is determined by the OPC, which is a very speedy service.
Okay so it is proposing a bit of a "reset". But we aren't saying you need to change your whole backstory, or saying that everyone starts out as padawans again. This just adds variety and ACTUAL power levels. The ones you think you use now are really just pretend.
I still don't understand. Voted against what? Extremely basic addition to a Roleplay? What does that mean?
No we aren't taking that away. Everybody still does whatever they want. If someone says "Uses Force Push" and the other guy says "*Gets flown back into a Wall*" They can still do that. The only difference is that the Force Push would ACTUALLY do damage to a person, not just "Oh you Force Pushed me? Okay. Well...instantly recovers! "
Yes it does mean that we are limited to 1 move per post. But in reality, its not like people would actually be able to do 3 separate things before their opponent does anything. So if anything, this is making it more realistic.
You could sit in a Force Protection Bubble and shoot Force Lightning for the entire battle if you wanted to the old way. But did that sound as boring to you as it did to me? You also just kinda proved my point. You could do that with the old way, and nothing would hurt you. Way too OP and unrealistic, and boring, and that also means that there is no winner.
Its Roleplay. Everything is pretend.
The RP voted against having an FAC.
Its not the same. They don't get to choose: 1. *Gets thrown back and falls.* 2. *Is thrown back but lands standing.* 3. Parries with Force Push, then Force Chokes you* 4. Etc.
Hmmf.
There's NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A WINNER! This is Roleplay, not a game. It doesn't end; everyone's a winner at some point. Who wins at different times is decided by people's knowledge of Force powers and how to counter them, and their ability to improvise and find new ways to block and deflect. If I defeat you in a duel, it's because I know a power you don't, or because I have studied a power carefully and know how to use it to defeat someone.
That is determined by the OPC, which is a very speedy service.
Okay so it is proposing a bit of a "reset". But we aren't saying you need to change your whole backstory, or saying that everyone starts out as padawans again. This just adds variety and ACTUAL power levels. The ones you think you use now are really just pretend.
I still don't understand. Voted against what? Extremely basic addition to a Roleplay? What does that mean?
No we aren't taking that away. Everybody still does whatever they want. If someone says "Uses Force Push" and the other guy says "*Gets flown back into a Wall*" They can still do that. The only difference is that the Force Push would ACTUALLY do damage to a person, not just "Oh you Force Pushed me? Okay. Well...instantly recovers! "
Yes it does mean that we are limited to 1 move per post. But in reality, its not like people would actually be able to do 3 separate things before their opponent does anything. So if anything, this is making it more realistic.
You could sit in a Force Protection Bubble and shoot Force Lightning for the entire battle if you wanted to the old way. But did that sound as boring to you as it did to me? You also just kinda proved my point. You could do that with the old way, and nothing would hurt you. Way too OP and unrealistic, and boring, and that also means that there is no winner.
Its Roleplay. Everything is pretend.
The RP voted against having an FAC.
Its not the same. They don't get to choose: 1. *Gets thrown back and falls.* 2. *Is thrown back but lands standing.* 3. Parries with Force Push, then Force Chokes you* 4. Etc.
Hmmf.
There's NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A WINNER! This is Roleplay, not a game. It doesn't end; everyone's a winner at some point. Who wins at different times is decided by people's knowledge of Force powers and how to counter them, and their ability to improvise and find new ways to block and deflect. If I defeat you in a duel, it's because I know a power you don't, or because I have studied a power carefully and know how to use it to defeat someone.
Are you saying the OPC is equivalent to an FAC? And when was this decided upon?
Yes you would get to choose that. You would just word a bit differently maybe. 1 would mean that you just take the damage. 2 means that you dodge. and 3 mean you Counter.
That just simply isn't true. What decides a match is not by knowledge of Force powers. Especially in reality. What determines a match is how you use those force powers. And just because you know a force power that I don't doesn't mean that you are automatically going to win. Because I could easily just look it up and find out how to counter it.
The old way, when you duel someone, it's really just making up a story. The problem with that is people don't want to be the loser in that story. This eliminates pride and selfishness. Lets be honest here, lets say we go to war. There is literally nothing that will declare either side the victor.
Its not the same. They don't get to choose: 1. *Gets thrown back and falls.* 2. *Is thrown back but lands standing.* 3. Parries with Force Push, then Force Chokes you* 4. Etc.
Hmmf.
There's NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A WINNER! This is Roleplay, not a game. It doesn't end; everyone's a winner at some point. Who wins at different times is decided by people's knowledge of Force powers and how to counter them, and their ability to improvise and find new ways to block and deflect. If I defeat you in a duel, it's because I know a power you don't, or because I have studied a power carefully and know how to use it to defeat someone.
Are you saying the OPC is equivalent to an FAC? And when was this decided upon?
Yes you would get to choose that. You would just word a bit differently maybe. 1 would mean that you just take the damage. 2 means that you dodge. and 3 mean you Counter.
That just simply isn't true. What decides a match is not by knowledge of Force powers. Especially in reality. What determines a match is how you use those force powers. And just because you know a force power that I don't doesn't mean that you are automatically going to win. Because I could easily just look it up and find out how to counter it.
The old way, when you duel someone, it's really just making up a story. The problem with that is people don't want to be the loser in that story. This eliminates pride and selfishness. Lets be honest here, lets say we go to war. There is literally nothing that will declare either side the victor.
It approves fanon. Ages ago. First few pages in the RCC.
Hmmf.
True, but in order to know how to use it you have to know what it does. Looking it up would be metagaming, and therefore illegal. You could look it up for future reference, but using what you looked up to parry it there and then would not be allowed; your RPc would have no way of knowing.
People take damage. All experienced RPers do:
P1: *Force Pushes you* *Ignites lightsaber* *Thrusts at you*
P2: *Counters with Force Push* *Ducks* *Uses Morichro on you*
Are you saying the OPC is equivalent to an FAC? And when was this decided upon?
Yes you would get to choose that. You would just word a bit differently maybe. 1 would mean that you just take the damage. 2 means that you dodge. and 3 mean you Counter.
That just simply isn't true. What decides a match is not by knowledge of Force powers. Especially in reality. What determines a match is how you use those force powers. And just because you know a force power that I don't doesn't mean that you are automatically going to win. Because I could easily just look it up and find out how to counter it.
The old way, when you duel someone, it's really just making up a story. The problem with that is people don't want to be the loser in that story. This eliminates pride and selfishness. Lets be honest here, lets say we go to war. There is literally nothing that will declare either side the victor.
It approves fanon. Ages ago. First few pages in the RCC.
Hmmf.
True, but in order to know how to use it you have to know what it does. Looking it up would be metagaming, and therefore illegal. You could look it up for future reference, but using what you looked up to parry it there and then would not be allowed; your RPc would have no way of knowing.
People take damage. All experienced RPers do:
P1: *Force Pushes you* *Ignites lightsaber* *Thrusts at you*
P2: *Counters with Force Push* *Ducks* *Uses Morichro on you*
P2: *Uses Force to hold windpipe in normal position* *Uses Force Fear on you* *Traps you in a Force Barrier*
P1: *Struggles, then uses Force Mind Shield* *Uses Force to smash the barrier* *Pants, leaning on the wall*
P2: *Shoots Force Lightning at you*
P1: *Uses Tutaminis* *Shoots Emerald Lightning at you*
P2: *Is caught by surprise, and falls to the ground* *Draws blaster* *Fires at you*
P1: *Is not expecting this, and is hit* *Throws grenade*
P2: *Force Throws grenade back at you*
P1: *Is blasted back by grenade* *Uses Plant *Surge to bind you* *Uses Force to bond with a Rancor and summons it*
P2: *Force Combusts plants* *Force Leaps onto Rancor's head* *Slashes at it with lightsaber*
P1: *Rancor thrashes, throwing you off, but is smashed.* *Struggles to feet* *Ignites lightsaber*
P2: *Is thrown into wall, and gasps in pain* *Shoots Force Lightning at you*
P1: *Is not expecting this, and is hit*
P2: *Uses Sever Force*
P1: *Is in too much pain to counter it, and can no longer use the Force*
P2: *Uses Morichro on P1, winning*
As you can see, it is perfectly possible to win.
No one is supposed to win entirely. You do smaller things, like destroying bases and forcing people to retreat.
Well yeah technically you really should only learn new moves through RPing with a master or something instead of just looking it up. We are still allowing that. Like I said earlier, we haven't released everything yet, and one of the things we will do is a Knights Move Set, a Masters Move Set etc...
Aah, I wish that is how battles were fought. Sadly, the more realistic duel would go more like this:
P2: *Uses Sever Force*
P1: *Uses force to throw a boulder you before you can use Sever Force*
It approves fanon. Ages ago. First few pages in the RCC.
Hmmf.
True, but in order to know how to use it you have to know what it does. Looking it up would be metagaming, and therefore illegal. You could look it up for future reference, but using what you looked up to parry it there and then would not be allowed; your RPc would have no way of knowing.
People take damage. All experienced RPers do:
P1: *Force Pushes you* *Ignites lightsaber* *Thrusts at you*
P2: *Counters with Force Push* *Ducks* *Uses Morichro on you*
P2: *Uses Force to hold windpipe in normal position* *Uses Force Fear on you* *Traps you in a Force Barrier*
P1: *Struggles, then uses Force Mind Shield* *Uses Force to smash the barrier* *Pants, leaning on the wall*
P2: *Shoots Force Lightning at you*
P1: *Uses Tutaminis* *Shoots Emerald Lightning at you*
P2: *Is caught by surprise, and falls to the ground* *Draws blaster* *Fires at you*
P1: *Is not expecting this, and is hit* *Throws grenade*
P2: *Force Throws grenade back at you*
P1: *Is blasted back by grenade* *Uses Plant *Surge to bind you* *Uses Force to bond with a Rancor and summons it*
P2: *Force Combusts plants* *Force Leaps onto Rancor's head* *Slashes at it with lightsaber*
P1: *Rancor thrashes, throwing you off, but is smashed.* *Struggles to feet* *Ignites lightsaber*
P2: *Is thrown into wall, and gasps in pain* *Shoots Force Lightning at you*
P1: *Is not expecting this, and is hit*
P2: *Uses Sever Force*
P1: *Is in too much pain to counter it, and can no longer use the Force*
P2: *Uses Morichro on P1, winning*
As you can see, it is perfectly possible to win.
No one is supposed to win entirely. You do smaller things, like destroying bases and forcing people to retreat.
Well yeah technically you really should only learn new moves through RPing with a master or something instead of just looking it up. We are still allowing that. Like I said earlier, we haven't released everything yet, and one of the things we will do is a Knights Move Set, a Masters Move Set etc...
Aah, I wish that is how battles were fought. Sadly, the more realistic duel would go more like this:
P2: *Uses Sever Force*
P1: *Uses force to throw a boulder you before you can use Sever Force*
You can look things up and say you learnt them from a holocron. What you can not do is look stuff up when in a battle. That sounds like a bad idea. Some padawon's can easily overpower masters with Force Pushes; rank signifies experience, not power.
Doesn't change anything. P2 deflects the boulder like the minor distraction it is, and then overpowers P1.
I just do not believe people will vote for this system.
Well yeah technically you really should only learn new moves through RPing with a master or something instead of just looking it up. We are still allowing that. Like I said earlier, we haven't released everything yet, and one of the things we will do is a Knights Move Set, a Masters Move Set etc...
Aah, I wish that is how battles were fought. Sadly, the more realistic duel would go more like this:
P2: *Uses Sever Force*
P1: *Uses force to throw a boulder you before you can use Sever Force*
You can look things up and say you learnt them from a holocron. What you can not do is look stuff up when in a battle. That sounds like a bad idea. Some padawon's can easily overpower masters with Force Pushes; rank signifies experience, not power.
Doesn't change anything. P2 deflects the boulder like the minor distraction it is, and then overpowers P1.
I just do not believe people will vote for this system.
My point was that none of the opponents will ever decide that they are defeated. Unless they actually just give up because they are tired of fighting endlessly.
You can look things up and say you learnt them from a holocron. What you can not do is look stuff up when in a battle. That sounds like a bad idea. Some padawon's can easily overpower masters with Force Pushes; rank signifies experience, not power.
Doesn't change anything. P2 deflects the boulder like the minor distraction it is, and then overpowers P1.
I just do not believe people will vote for this system.
My point was that none of the opponents will ever decide that they are defeated. Unless they actually just give up because they are tired of fighting endlessly.
And that is what I'm tired of. Which is why I never duel anymore, people simply won't be humble. I have even given up duels because I was sick of fighting for weeks on end. Sure it is a strike to my pride and still is but that's ok. [a]
My only problem is that you should probally add/change a couple abilities. (what jedi would use choke)
Also what is white lightning?
Thanks Spyaz!
Okay, I know I have had this discussion with someone before There is no reason why Jedi can't use Force Choke. Luke uses it in Return of the Jedi when he goes into Jabba's Palace.
And White Lightning is the Jedi version of Force Lightning. It is fueled by love and compassion or something like that. But yes, new abilities will be added. There is actually a lot of things that we will be adding, but we didn't want to overload you guys with too much information at once.
Is it related to Force Judgement,or Emerald lightning?