Wait a sec, how are you showing allegiance to the government and denying your allegiance to God by loving and doing the best you can for your country? How do acts of love for your country entirely revoke your allegiance to God?
I respect your opinions, but you appear to be treating this country as if it were intrinsically evil when it is not.
Empires, that's what we are, all fall, do you think Christians in Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, or Pakistan feel their GOV. is great? AS Christians are only Allegiance is to God, The Devil rules Earth, so showing Allegiance to any Government is showing allegiance to Satan in a sense. What does this country matter? What does any? They will all fall.
I don't think Christians in those places like their governments, because theirs aren't designed to be as free as ours. Do you think they could enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness there? Well they can do it much better here, because America is literally designed for that.
So all governmental institutions are immediately Satanic because Satan roams about the earth causing trouble? Satan does not rule the world, he has considerable influence, but God is way too smart to let Satan rule the world. After all this is God's world, not Satan's. Governmental institutions are flawed, but that does not mean they are automatically evil. Things do not have to be perfect to avoid being evil.
How can you prove Satan rules the world? Does everything occur exactly as Satan wills? Because no, Satan loses left and right because in choosing evil, that is what he has set himself up for.
Well sometimes its better living in North Korea for Christians, there you don't have any confusion about Church and State, and There is most definitely a separation of the two.
There's no separation of church and state in North Korea. Religion is illegal. If you want things to worship, their paintings are right there on your living room wall.
To put it simply: in North Korea, the church is the state.
My point is that in neither case the Bible specifies that either is true, but both MUST be true based on what we know about both.
Well Jesus speaks of not being able to serve 2 masters, Render to Caesar what is Caesar's. I don't think that means Dying for Babylon.
He says you cannot serve God and mammon. This refers to loving money more than God. "Render to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." You have half quoted this a lot, but have you thought about what it says? Give to the government what you owe to them, and to God what you owe Him.
In fact, the context here was that Jews in the area had been rebellion against the Roman government and refusing to pay taxes. Some Pharisees attempted to put Jesus between a rock and a hard place by asking him whether it was right for the Jews to pay tax to the Romans. If Jesus said yes, then the Jews would reject him for submitting to Roman authority; if he said no, then the Romans would punish him for endorsing rebellion.
Jesus's answer was to give to Caesar the money that he minted (other writings of the New Testament encourage one to obey the law, by the way) and to give to God what is God's, which I'll let you interpret for yourself. I'll give you the hint that God didn't print the dollar bill.
✠✙ What once was old doth fade away/But Former Glory stays the same ✙✠ •••Unity•••Duty•••DESTINY••• ***EST. 2006*** • 9/11/01 • BCC: 2010-2014 • EX-TER-MIN-ATE! –Dalek
I never said the country was following God. If that was a case, we'd be a theocracy. I do know that this country gives me the right to worship God in any way I please and to follow whatever religion I please. If this country betrayed my right to the freedom of religion, I would renounce this country.
Just because something has the word "Christian" in it does not make it immortal. If the 12 disciples were Jesus's closest followers on Earth and were such good people, why were 10 of them martyred? Judas betrayed Jesus and suffered his own fate while John was the only one of the 12 disciples to die of natural causes. Just because something is Christian does not make it perfect, sinless, or immune to pain and suffering. The Bible makes it abundantly clear to us that those who follow God will endure more pain and suffering than those who renounce Him, and their reward shall be great in heaven. All countries will fall because all countries are on this Earth and this Earth will not last forever; that doesn't make all countries evil.
For the Most case, Russia has Freedom, I know some churches get attacked but they are usually tied in with America.
You know that last year Russia made it illegal to speak about your religion outside of the place of worship and your own home, right?
Edit: What you said is also completely off-topic to my post, which didn't mention Russia anywhere.
✠✙ What once was old doth fade away/But Former Glory stays the same ✙✠ •••Unity•••Duty•••DESTINY••• ***EST. 2006*** • 9/11/01 • BCC: 2010-2014 • EX-TER-MIN-ATE! –Dalek
No, but we're not talking about Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, or Pakistan. None of them have liberties, freedoms, and most are dictatorships.
As opposed to America, which still has, for the most part. freedom, liberty, free speech, the right to believe what you want. Yes, some beliefs are not attacked unjustly, but almost never by the government itself. So, no, it isn't perfect, but it is still probably the most free country in the world.
The devil only rules earth in a certain sense. God is of course supreme, and rules earth, any schemes of the devil's only int he end lead to God's victory. And not merely in the sense of evil unexpectedly leading to good, but also in the sense of good rising up to actively fight evil, through the stirring of God, even through the actions of unbelievers, actions in which I have great trouble believing Satan played any part, for they stand against him, and the most he can do is try to corrupt them.
Such as Cyrus, the King of Persia, who, while Pagan, is described as The Lord's Anointed.
In the end yes. But for a while, America will have stood. And it stood for liberty, and freedom. And, while many evils have occurred in America, and there are moments where people put power above freedom, America also made people be able to believe what they wanted to, to have freedom, without having to cower, but being able to stand out in the open and shout heir beliefs to the heavens.
And America cast down dictatorships, overthrew Tyrants, liberated the oppressed, and spread freedom throughout the world. Even though that will not last forever, it happened. It can never be changed.
No, America is not a Christian country. No, it is not and never has been perfect. Yes, there are moments when you can see the devil at work. Yes, it will fall.
But I think of a bunch of men in a room, declaring that all men are created equal, I think of men charging through the surf to destroy a satanic tyranny, I think of a people free to believe in God free to send missionaries far and wide across the world to preach the truth, I think of pilots flying food into a starved city to save the inhabitants from oppression, I think of Americans extending Mercy to people from who they received none, and I do not see the work of Satan, but the work of God.
Well what about the Tyrants we put in? Freedom is nice but North Korea doesn't get you in the same mistake as many here. Are you Familiar with what the Founding Fathers believed? This is Satan's masterpiece, he couldn't destroy the Church so he joined it in a way, he corrupted it and that's what we have now.
What tyrants do we put in? Do you know the tyrants North Korea has? Do you know what being religious can do to you there? I'm familiar with the fact that regardless of what religion the Founding Fathers believed (they were all Christians or deists who agreed with most of the same ideas), they believed that I could have the right to worship the way I chose, regardless of whether they found it correct or not.
And now you're telling me Satan corrupted the church. I know that people can be corrupt, but isn't what you're saying going a little too far? And if Satan has whole corrupted and twisted your very religion, what grants you the clarity to tell what is right and wrong? Your NIV Bible first printed in 1978?
✠✙ What once was old doth fade away/But Former Glory stays the same ✙✠ •••Unity•••Duty•••DESTINY••• ***EST. 2006*** • 9/11/01 • BCC: 2010-2014 • EX-TER-MIN-ATE! –Dalek
Empires, that's what we are, all fall, do you think Christians in Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, or Pakistan feel their GOV. is great? AS Christians are only Allegiance is to God, The Devil rules Earth, so showing Allegiance to any Government is showing allegiance to Satan in a sense. What does this country matter? What does any? They will all fall.
I don't think Christians in those places like their governments, because theirs aren't designed to be as free as ours. Do you think they could enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness there? Well they can do it much better here, because America is literally designed for that.
So all governmental institutions are immediately Satanic because Satan roams about the earth causing trouble? Satan does not rule the world, he has considerable influence, but God is way too smart to let Satan rule the world. After all this is God's world, not Satan's. Governmental institutions are flawed, but that does not mean they are automatically evil. Things do not have to be perfect to avoid being evil.
How can you prove Satan rules the world? Does everything occur exactly as Satan wills? Because no, Satan loses left and right because in choosing evil, that is what he has set himself up for.
I'd also like to chime in and say that God commanded us to obey government authorities unless they go directly against his Law.
Well what about the Tyrants we put in? Freedom is nice but North Korea doesn't get you in the same mistake as many here. Are you Familiar with what the Founding Fathers believed? This is Satan's masterpiece, he couldn't destroy the Church so he joined it in a way, he corrupted it and that's what we have now.
What tyrants do we put in? Do you know the tyrants North Korea has? Do you know what being religious can do to you there? I'm familiar with the fact that regardless of what religion the Founding Fathers believed (they were all Christians or deists who agreed with most of the same ideas), they believed that I could have the right to worship the way I chose, regardless of whether they found it correct or not.
And now you're telling me Satan corrupted the church. I know that people can be corrupt, but isn't what you're saying going a little too far? And if Satan has whole corrupted and twisted your very religion, what grants you the clarity to tell what is right and wrong? Your NIV Bible first printed in 1978?
In response to what I put in bold: Satan has, in many places, corrupted the church. There are liberal churches who approve of unbiblical things are over America.
What tyrants do we put in? Do you know the tyrants North Korea has? Do you know what being religious can do to you there? I'm familiar with the fact that regardless of what religion the Founding Fathers believed (they were all Christians or deists who agreed with most of the same ideas), they believed that I could have the right to worship the way I chose, regardless of whether they found it correct or not.
And now you're telling me Satan corrupted the church. I know that people can be corrupt, but isn't what you're saying going a little too far? And if Satan has whole corrupted and twisted your very religion, what grants you the clarity to tell what is right and wrong? Your NIV Bible first printed in 1978?
In response to what I put in bold: Satan has, in many places, corrupted the church. There are liberal churches who approve of unbiblical things are over America.
While I'll agree that many churches practice and believe things stated to be completely the opposite of godly in the Bible, I don't think the religion as a whole has been corrupted.
✠✙ What once was old doth fade away/But Former Glory stays the same ✙✠ •••Unity•••Duty•••DESTINY••• ***EST. 2006*** • 9/11/01 • BCC: 2010-2014 • EX-TER-MIN-ATE! –Dalek
In response to what I put in bold: Satan has, in many places, corrupted the church. There are liberal churches who approve of unbiblical things are over America.
While I'll agree that many churches practice and believe things stated to be completely the opposite of godly in the Bible, I don't think the religion as a whole has been corrupted.
Exactly. Christianity as a whole is not corrupted, but many people who claim to be Christians do very ungodly things.
In response to what I put in bold: Satan has, in many places, corrupted the church. There are liberal churches who approve of unbiblical things are over America.
While I'll agree that many churches practice and believe things stated to be completely the opposite of godly in the Bible, I don't think the religion as a whole has been corrupted.
And I really don't think that was what Tweed was talking about. He seemed to mean in context with the government.
No, but we're not talking about Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, or Pakistan. None of them have liberties, freedoms, and most are dictatorships.
As opposed to America, which still has, for the most part. freedom, liberty, free speech, the right to believe what you want. Yes, some beliefs are not attacked unjustly, but almost never by the government itself. So, no, it isn't perfect, but it is still probably the most free country in the world.
The devil only rules earth in a certain sense. God is of course supreme, and rules earth, any schemes of the devil's only int he end lead to God's victory. And not merely in the sense of evil unexpectedly leading to good, but also in the sense of good rising up to actively fight evil, through the stirring of God, even through the actions of unbelievers, actions in which I have great trouble believing Satan played any part, for they stand against him, and the most he can do is try to corrupt them.
Such as Cyrus, the King of Persia, who, while Pagan, is described as The Lord's Anointed.
In the end yes. But for a while, America will have stood. And it stood for liberty, and freedom. And, while many evils have occurred in America, and there are moments where people put power above freedom, America also made people be able to believe what they wanted to, to have freedom, without having to cower, but being able to stand out in the open and shout heir beliefs to the heavens.
And America cast down dictatorships, overthrew Tyrants, liberated the oppressed, and spread freedom throughout the world. Even though that will not last forever, it happened. It can never be changed.
No, America is not a Christian country. No, it is not and never has been perfect. Yes, there are moments when you can see the devil at work. Yes, it will fall.
But I think of a bunch of men in a room, declaring that all men are created equal, I think of men charging through the surf to destroy a satanic tyranny, I think of a people free to believe in God free to send missionaries far and wide across the world to preach the truth, I think of pilots flying food into a starved city to save the inhabitants from oppression, I think of Americans extending Mercy to people from who they received none, and I do not see the work of Satan, but the work of God.
Well what about the Tyrants we put in? Freedom is nice but North Korea doesn't get you in the same mistake as many here. Are you Familiar with what the Founding Fathers believed? This is Satan's masterpiece, he couldn't destroy the Church so he joined it in a way, he corrupted it and that's what we have now.
1.What tyrants?
2. No, North Korea just oppresses freedom and tries to crush Religion and indoctrinate people and make them worship the Supreme Leader. Yes, I know that oppression can help Christianity, but it can also hurt it sometimes if the oppression goes to an insane extent, and in any and all cases the oppression is still wrong. And, a lack of oppression can help Christianity, such as the fact that America has been able to send missionaries all over the entire planet.
3. Yes. I am familiar with what they believed. What exactly is your point?
4. How exactly did he corrupt it? Yes, there are a lot of people who don't believe the truth (and personally I'm against the whole institutional church model and think we should strive for what the new Testament actually says) but you keep bringing this up in context with the US government, when as far as I can see they have nothing to do with it.
While I'll agree that many churches practice and believe things stated to be completely the opposite of godly in the Bible, I don't think the religion as a whole has been corrupted.
And I really don't think that was what Tweed was talking about. He seemed to mean in context with the government.
Hmmm, fair enough. It was confusing to read to be honest.
✠✙ What once was old doth fade away/But Former Glory stays the same ✙✠ •••Unity•••Duty•••DESTINY••• ***EST. 2006*** • 9/11/01 • BCC: 2010-2014 • EX-TER-MIN-ATE! –Dalek
My point is that in neither case the Bible specifies that either is true, but both MUST be true based on what we know about both.
Well Jesus speaks of not being able to serve 2 masters, Render to Caesar what is Caesar's. I don't think that means Dying for Babylon.
When he said you can't serve two masters, he was talking about greed and money. There is a difference when it comes to family and government because both were instituted by God.
What tyrants do we put in? Do you know the tyrants North Korea has? Do you know what being religious can do to you there? I'm familiar with the fact that regardless of what religion the Founding Fathers believed (they were all Christians or deists who agreed with most of the same ideas), they believed that I could have the right to worship the way I chose, regardless of whether they found it correct or not.
And now you're telling me Satan corrupted the church. I know that people can be corrupt, but isn't what you're saying going a little too far? And if Satan has whole corrupted and twisted your very religion, what grants you the clarity to tell what is right and wrong? Your NIV Bible first printed in 1978?
In response to what I put in bold: Satan has, in many places, corrupted the church. There are liberal churches who approve of unbiblical things are over America.
Yeah, Satan may have corrupted some churches, but then they're not really churches, are they?
