I'm am almost certain that that is incorrect. If you are referring to a message sent to the Soviet's shortly before Potsdam in July 1945, one of my WWII books says that
what Japan offered was a ceasefire, not surrender. The goverment would stay the same, Japan would disarm itself,a nd it would retain all of it's existing empire.
Which is considerably different. I'm am not defending the bomb, but unless there was another attempt made of which I am unaware, they did not try to surrendur before the
bombs. After, they offered surrender, if the Emperor retained his throne,a nd there offer was accepted.
The problem was the surrender was unconditional -- the United States would not accept "we surrender if the Emperor retains the throne." Many in Japan feared that the Emperor would be executed, and it was only on the Emperor's personal insistence that the government went through with unconditional surrender.
✠✙ What once was old doth fade away/But Former Glory stays the same ✙✠ •••Unity•••Duty•••DESTINY••• ***EST. 2006*** • 9/11/01 • BCC: 2010-2014 • EX-TER-MIN-ATE! –Dalek
If it wasn't used I wouldn't be here right now. My grandfather was in the invasion army.
It was used and I'm very lucky to be here right now.
My great-great-grandfather worked in Hiroshima and no, he didn't "happen to be out of town on that day."
✠✙ What once was old doth fade away/But Former Glory stays the same ✙✠ •••Unity•••Duty•••DESTINY••• ***EST. 2006*** • 9/11/01 • BCC: 2010-2014 • EX-TER-MIN-ATE! –Dalek
The guy's memoirs would seem to indicate otherwise.
Is he going to say anything negative about himself?
I just reread some of the stuff I was referring to and yeah the guy's a crazed madman
Old sci-fi is the best sci-fi! v this is not old sci-fi Maxim 3: An ordnance technician at a dead run outranks everybody. Maxim 24: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a big gun.
"“Even by the twenty-second century, no way had yet been discovered of keeping elderly and conservative scientists from occupying crucial administrative positions. Indeed, it was doubted if the problem ever would be solved.” ^That, on the other hand, is old sci-fi.
With Keller and Zuhkov, I don't think I spelled that right.
I am confused
What did you mean to say?
Old sci-fi is the best sci-fi! v this is not old sci-fi Maxim 3: An ordnance technician at a dead run outranks everybody. Maxim 24: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a big gun.
"“Even by the twenty-second century, no way had yet been discovered of keeping elderly and conservative scientists from occupying crucial administrative positions. Indeed, it was doubted if the problem ever would be solved.” ^That, on the other hand, is old sci-fi.
I'm am almost certain that that is incorrect. If you are referring to a message sent to the Soviet's shortly before Potsdam in July 1945, one of my WWII books says that
what Japan offered was a ceasefire, not surrender. The goverment would stay the same, Japan would disarm itself,a nd it would retain all of it's existing empire.
Which is considerably different. I'm am not defending the bomb, but unless there was another attempt made of which I am unaware, they did not try to surrendur before the
bombs. After, they offered surrender, if the Emperor retained his throne,a nd there offer was accepted.
Okay I may disagree with your first statement but your later one is half right. The offer was not accepted, America insisted on UNCONDITIONAL. That way they could do whatever they wanted Japan wanted Hirohito alive because they believed he was a god. America refused and used the A bomb to sczare Stalin and let Japan keep Hirohito anyway. Obviously America had no problem with Hirohito they had their own sick motives.
How can you disagree with the truth? Unless there is something I am missing, which I do not believe is the case, Japan did not try to surrender unconditionally or even close to that, until after the bombs were dropped.
And I was wrong, I believe, in saying that after the bombs were dropped that they still insisted on Hirohito retaining his throne. They accepted the Potsdam declaration, and unconditionally surrendered all their armed forces.
The Japanese never offered to surrender before the bombs if Hirohito was still Emperor.
Okay I may disagree with your first statement but your later one is half right. The offer was not accepted, America insisted on UNCONDITIONAL. That way they could do whatever they wanted Japan wanted Hirohito alive because they believed he was a god. America refused and used the A bomb to sczare Stalin and let Japan keep Hirohito anyway. Obviously America had no problem with Hirohito they had their own sick motives.
How can you disagree with the truth? Unless there is something I am missing, which I do not believe is the case, Japan did not try to surrender unconditionally or even close to that, until after the bombs were dropped.
And I was wrong, I believe, in saying that after the bombs were dropped that they still insisted on Hirohito retaining his throne. They accepted the Potsdam declaration, and unconditionally surrendered all their armed forces.
The Japanese never offered to surrender before the bombs if Hirohito was still Emperor.
The Japanese surrender did take place after the bombs were dropped, but this was because the Soviet declaration of war took place between the bombs. The Japanese knew that the United States would at the very least not conquer Japan, where the Soviet Union would have turned Japan into a Soviet territory if the war continued.
✠✙ What once was old doth fade away/But Former Glory stays the same ✙✠ •••Unity•••Duty•••DESTINY••• ***EST. 2006*** • 9/11/01 • BCC: 2010-2014 • EX-TER-MIN-ATE! –Dalek
"P.M. [Prime Minister Winston Churchill] & I ate alone. Discussed Manhattan [atomic bomb] (it is a success). Decided to tell Stalin about it. Stalin had told P.M. of telegram from Jap Emperor asking for peace. Stalin also read his answer to me. It was satisfactory. Believe Japs will fold up before Russia comes in. I am sure they will when Manhattan appears over their homeland. I shall inform Stalin about it at an opportune time." [The closest Truman came to doing that was on 7/24/45 when "I casually mentioned to Stalin that we had a new weapon of unusual destructive force." (Harry Truman, "Memoirs, 1945", pg. 416). No mention was made by Truman that the weapon was an atomic bomb.]
✠✙ What once was old doth fade away/But Former Glory stays the same ✙✠ •••Unity•••Duty•••DESTINY••• ***EST. 2006*** • 9/11/01 • BCC: 2010-2014 • EX-TER-MIN-ATE! –Dalek
Assuming he did know that, he still needed a way of telling communism "don't mess with us". Telling them that they had a nuke wouldn't work, but the Japanese saying they did would have been a darn good warning.
I'm not saying I agree with it, just saying why he might have done it.
Actually, I read that after the Bomb exploded at Los Alamos and Truman heard about it, he went and told Stalin. He didn't tell him directly, but made sure Stalin knew what
he meant. Stalin pretended to be unfazed, but was actually disturbed. So, simply telling them may have worked.
They had to prove it, though. People were scared by the Death Star in Rouge One, but for part of the film they didn't know it existed.
Okay I may disagree with your first statement but your later one is half right. The offer was not accepted, America insisted on UNCONDITIONAL. That way they could do whatever they wanted Japan wanted Hirohito alive because they believed he was a god. America refused and used the A bomb to sczare Stalin and let Japan keep Hirohito anyway. Obviously America had no problem with Hirohito they had their own sick motives.
How can you disagree with the truth? Unless there is something I am missing, which I do not believe is the case, Japan did not try to surrender unconditionally or even close to that, until after the bombs were dropped.
And I was wrong, I believe, in saying that after the bombs were dropped that they still insisted on Hirohito retaining his throne. They accepted the Potsdam declaration, and unconditionally surrendered all their armed forces.
The Japanese never offered to surrender before the bombs if Hirohito was still Emperor.
Japan most certianly did try to surrender much earlier. I don't know where you got your info, you should watch Oliver Stone's American History.
How can you disagree with the truth? Unless there is something I am missing, which I do not believe is the case, Japan did not try to surrender unconditionally or even close to that, until after the bombs were dropped.
And I was wrong, I believe, in saying that after the bombs were dropped that they still insisted on Hirohito retaining his throne. They accepted the Potsdam declaration, and unconditionally surrendered all their armed forces.
The Japanese never offered to surrender before the bombs if Hirohito was still Emperor.
The Japanese surrender did take place after the bombs were dropped, but this was because the Soviet declaration of war took place between the bombs. The Japanese knew that the United States would at the very least not conquer Japan, where the Soviet Union would have turned Japan into a Soviet territory if the war continued.
Oh, I know. A Soviet Declaration of war, continous conventional bombing, destruction of japanese shipping, and internal unrest could, I think,
quite possibly have made Japan surrender without the bombs.
As I said, I'm not defending dropped the bombs. I believe it was wrong. I was just trying to establish that the Japanse didn't try to surrender beforehand.
Post by Darth Venomir on Jan 17, 2017 13:31:35 GMT
how did this topic even get through? this is really controversial stuff here. my great-grandpa almost died during the war, and my friend's great gramps did.
