OOC: The best crafted, the most powerful, but not necessarily the farthest shooting. In addition, the orcs have a height advantage.
In many ways power and range are the same thing. You have to remember that elven bows would have the stronger draw weight and therefor be more powerful and longer ranged, and they would be much bigger which allows them to shoot farther.
I don't think a orcish bow would have much more than a 60 pound draw weight. And as it is that could shoot maybe 100 meters. But an elven bow could have a draw weight of maybe 120+ pounds twice as powerful as an orcish bow. Now granted it doesn't all transfer into range, but an elven bow should have an range of 150-175 meters or about 500 feet. And before you say that the elves couldn't be accurate at that range listen to this. Elves where known to have exceptional eyesight and Legolas (in the books) could pick out about how many rohirrim there was from 10 miles away. So an elf could easily see a orc at 1/100th of that. They have also had years to practice archery and would vary skilled marksmen. Remember you are trying to say that the orcs are better than elven archers. Who are well knowen as the best archers in Middle Earth. Um no. If KitKat could varifary my points that would be great.
Your elves must have some crazy huge back muscles to use a 120 pound bow.
In many ways power and range are the same thing. You have to remember that elven bows would have the stronger draw weight and therefor be more powerful and longer ranged, and they would be much bigger which allows them to shoot farther.
I don't think a orcish bow would have much more than a 60 pound draw weight. And as it is that could shoot maybe 100 meters. But an elven bow could have a draw weight of maybe 120+ pounds twice as powerful as an orcish bow. Now granted it doesn't all transfer into range, but an elven bow should have an range of 150-175 meters or about 500 feet. And before you say that the elves couldn't be accurate at that range listen to this. Elves where known to have exceptional eyesight and Legolas (in the books) could pick out about how many rohirrim there was from 10 miles away. So an elf could easily see a orc at 1/100th of that. They have also had years to practice archery and would vary skilled marksmen. Remember you are trying to say that the orcs are better than elven archers. Who are well knowen as the best archers in Middle Earth. Um no. If KitKat could varifary my points that would be great.
Your elves must have some crazy huge back muscles to use a 120 pound bow.
Elves are magical. Plus they have been working out for 6000 years. I don't thing using a little 120lb. bow would be a problem. They could probably use a 500lb. bow, but that's just slightly OP.
Your elves must have some crazy huge back muscles to use a 120 pound bow.
Elves are magical. Plus they have been working out for 6000 years. I don't thing using a little 120lb. bow would be a problem. They could probably use a 500lb. bow, but that's just slightly OP.
500 pounds? Meanwhile I still have problems fully drawing my 50 pound bow
Elves are magical. Plus they have been working out for 6000 years. I don't thing using a little 120lb. bow would be a problem. They could probably use a 500lb. bow, but that's just slightly OP.
500 pounds? Meanwhile I still have problems fully drawing my 50 pound bow
Just work out for a few hundred years and you'll get it. Oh and learn magic too, that might help.
And here sham is, trying to go against my elven army with half numbers. I don't think this will end too well for him.
OOC: The best crafted, the most powerful, but not necessarily the farthest shooting. In addition, the orcs have a height advantage.
In many ways power and range are the same thing. You have to remember that elven bows would have the stronger draw weight and therefor be more powerful and longer ranged, and they would be much bigger which allows them to shoot farther.
I don't think a orcish bow would have much more than a 60 pound draw weight. And as it is that could shoot maybe 100 meters. But an elven bow could have a draw weight of maybe 120+ pounds twice as powerful as an orcish bow. Now granted it doesn't all transfer into range, but an elven bow should have an range of 150-175 meters or about 500 feet. And before you say that the elves couldn't be accurate at that range listen to this. Elves where known to have exceptional eyesight and Legolas (in the books) could pick out about how many rohirrim there was from 10 miles away. So an elf could easily see a orc at 1/100th of that. They have also had years to practice archery and would vary skilled marksmen. Remember you are trying to say that the orcs are better than elven archers. Who are well knowen as the best archers in Middle Earth. Um no. If KitKat could varifary my points that would be great.
Alrighty now. First off, yes, power and range are both very closely related. Now, a stronger bow isn't going to be as efficient in transferring its energy, but it will still get a better range if used properly. How much farther? I'm not really sure, and I don't have time to figure it out at the moment (I spent all of my extra time on that guide ). As for archery skills, yes the Elves would be better (I think the only ones who might be better with accuracy would be Hobbits, but that's a much shorter range), but the Orcs would be good too. I mean, Orcs are technically Elves, and it seem apparent to me that many of their attributes still transferred over for the most part, including skill in archery. Shamrock is right about the height advantage though, and presumably cover too. Again, I don't have the time to go through the calculations, but that would at least offset the better range of the Elves.
In many ways power and range are the same thing. You have to remember that elven bows would have the stronger draw weight and therefor be more powerful and longer ranged, and they would be much bigger which allows them to shoot farther.
I don't think a orcish bow would have much more than a 60 pound draw weight. And as it is that could shoot maybe 100 meters. But an elven bow could have a draw weight of maybe 120+ pounds twice as powerful as an orcish bow. Now granted it doesn't all transfer into range, but an elven bow should have an range of 150-175 meters or about 500 feet. And before you say that the elves couldn't be accurate at that range listen to this. Elves where known to have exceptional eyesight and Legolas (in the books) could pick out about how many rohirrim there was from 10 miles away. So an elf could easily see a orc at 1/100th of that. They have also had years to practice archery and would vary skilled marksmen. Remember you are trying to say that the orcs are better than elven archers. Who are well knowen as the best archers in Middle Earth. Um no. If KitKat could varifary my points that would be great.
Alrighty now. First off, yes, power and range are both very closely related. Now, a stronger bow isn't going to be as efficient in transferring its energy, but it will still get a better range if used properly. How much farther? I'm not really sure, and I don't have time to figure it out at the moment (I spent all of my extra time on that guide ). As for archery skills, yes the Elves would be better (I think the only ones who might be better with accuracy would be Hobbits, but that's a much shorter range), but the Orcs would be good too. I mean, Orcs are technically Elves, and it seem apparent to me that many of their attributes still transferred over for the most part, including skill in archery. Shamrock is right about the height advantage though, and presumably cover too. Again, I don't have the time to go through the calculations, but that would at least offset the better range of the Elves.
But KK you where supost to help me. JK
I didn't think that the orcs still have any of the elven traits.
Alrighty now. First off, yes, power and range are both very closely related. Now, a stronger bow isn't going to be as efficient in transferring its energy, but it will still get a better range if used properly. How much farther? I'm not really sure, and I don't have time to figure it out at the moment (I spent all of my extra time on that guide ). As for archery skills, yes the Elves would be better (I think the only ones who might be better with accuracy would be Hobbits, but that's a much shorter range), but the Orcs would be good too. I mean, Orcs are technically Elves, and it seem apparent to me that many of their attributes still transferred over for the most part, including skill in archery. Shamrock is right about the height advantage though, and presumably cover too. Again, I don't have the time to go through the calculations, but that would at least offset the better range of the Elves.
But KK you where supost to help me. JK
I didn't think that the orcs still have any of the elven traits.
Well, in all honesty, I don't think Tolkien ever said anything about that. At least the Orcs in Moria, however, seemed to be decent archers, so it would appear to me that they inherited at least a few traits, if even to a lesser degree.
Alrighty now. First off, yes, power and range are both very closely related. Now, a stronger bow isn't going to be as efficient in transferring its energy, but it will still get a better range if used properly. How much farther? I'm not really sure, and I don't have time to figure it out at the moment (I spent all of my extra time on that guide ). As for archery skills, yes the Elves would be better (I think the only ones who might be better with accuracy would be Hobbits, but that's a much shorter range), but the Orcs would be good too. I mean, Orcs are technically Elves, and it seem apparent to me that many of their attributes still transferred over for the most part, including skill in archery. Shamrock is right about the height advantage though, and presumably cover too. Again, I don't have the time to go through the calculations, but that would at least offset the better range of the Elves.
But KK you where supost to help me. JK
I didn't think that the orcs still have any of the elven traits.
There is no reason for them not to have them, though. The Sillmarillion says that the Noldor of the First Age surpassed them, but the Eldar degrade the longer they remain in Middle-Earth. Also, the bulk of your army is Silvan elves, possibly with a few Sindarin elves. There might be one or two Noldorin elves in your army, but nothing significant. Almost all of your host will be elves who never tried to travel to the west. Tolkien mentions in the Silmarillion that the light of Aman was still strong in the Noldor in the First Age. That implies that the Eldar were a lot stronger than the elves of Middle-Earth. Also, any Noldor in Lorien (the odd one, who came with Galdriel, if any did) would likely remain in the Golden Wood, as the craftsmanship of Silvan and Sindarin elves would be highly inferior to Noldorin.
Your elves are inferior to Noldor, on whom orcs were widely based. While, yes, your elves are skilled, they are not leagues above orcs, like the Noldor are.
I didn't think that the orcs still have any of the elven traits.
There is no reason for them not to have them, though. The Sillmarillion says that the Noldor of the First Age surpassed them, but the Eldar degrade the longer they remain in Middle-Earth. Also, the bulk of your army is Silvan elves, possibly with a few Sindarin elves. There might be one or two Noldorin elves in your army, but nothing significant. Almost all of your host will be elves who never tried to travel to the west. Tolkien mentions in the Silmarillion that the light of Aman was still strong in the Noldor in the First Age. That implies that the Eldar were a lot stronger than the elves of Middle-Earth. Also, any Noldor in Lorien (the odd one, who came with Galdriel, if any did) would likely remain in the Golden Wood, as the craftsmanship of Silvan and Sindarin elves would be highly inferior to Noldorin.
Your elves are inferior to Noldor, on whom orcs were widely based. While, yes, your elves are skilled, they are not leagues above orcs, like the Noldor are.
{Doom of Mandos. } 'Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains. On the House of Fëanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin, and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Dispossessed shall they be for ever.
'Ye have spilled the blood of your kindred unrighteously and have stained the land of Aman. For blood ye shall render blood, and beyond Aman ye shall dwell in Death's shadow. For though Eru appointed to you to die not in Eä, and no sickness may assail you, yet slain ye may be, and slain ye shall be: by weapon and by torment and by grief; and your houseless spirits shall come then to Mandos. There long shall ye abide and yearn for your bodies, and find little pity though all whom ye have slain should entreat for you. And those that endure in Middle-earth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden, and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger race that cometh after. The Valar have spoken.'
So note how this was to the Noldar that went with Feanor. Please note that this is just about the Noldar, not the Sindar, and Silvan elves, and they would not be effected by this "Faiding of the Eldar" The Sindar, lived under the same 'light' which came from Melian.
And now back to your point.
The Orcs are not based off of the Noldar, but rather the Avari. My Silven, and espshally the Sindar would be much better than the orcs, and maybe even as good as the Noldar at this point. And beside, it never that the orcs where elves. They may just be creatures made by Morgoth. I'll PM you a video that covers the doom of mandos about 45 minuates in.
There is no reason for them not to have them, though. The Sillmarillion says that the Noldor of the First Age surpassed them, but the Eldar degrade the longer they remain in Middle-Earth. Also, the bulk of your army is Silvan elves, possibly with a few Sindarin elves. There might be one or two Noldorin elves in your army, but nothing significant. Almost all of your host will be elves who never tried to travel to the west. Tolkien mentions in the Silmarillion that the light of Aman was still strong in the Noldor in the First Age. That implies that the Eldar were a lot stronger than the elves of Middle-Earth. Also, any Noldor in Lorien (the odd one, who came with Galdriel, if any did) would likely remain in the Golden Wood, as the craftsmanship of Silvan and Sindarin elves would be highly inferior to Noldorin.
Your elves are inferior to Noldor, on whom orcs were widely based. While, yes, your elves are skilled, they are not leagues above orcs, like the Noldor are.
{Doom of Mandos. } 'Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains. On the House of Fëanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin, and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Dispossessed shall they be for ever.
'Ye have spilled the blood of your kindred unrighteously and have stained the land of Aman. For blood ye shall render blood, and beyond Aman ye shall dwell in Death's shadow. For though Eru appointed to you to die not in Eä, and no sickness may assail you, yet slain ye may be, and slain ye shall be: by weapon and by torment and by grief; and your houseless spirits shall come then to Mandos. There long shall ye abide and yearn for your bodies, and find little pity though all whom ye have slain should entreat for you. And those that endure in Middle-earth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden, and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger race that cometh after. The Valar have spoken.'
So note how this was to the Noldar that went with Feanor. Please note that this is just about the Noldar, not the Sindar, and Silvan elves, and they would not be effected by this "Faiding of the Eldar" The Sindar, lived under the same 'light' which came from Melian.
And now back to your point.
The Orcs are not based off of the Noldar, but rather the Avari. My Silven, and espshally the Sindar would be much better than the orcs, and maybe even as good as the Noldar at this point. And beside, it never that the orcs where elves. They may just be creatures made by Morgoth. I'll PM you a video that covers the doom of mandos about 45 minuates in.
I'll post more later.
True, but Melian's power would not give them any light comparable to that of Valinor. It would make the Sindar better than the Silvan elves, yes, but not that much
Better, yes. Not wildly. The Silvan and Sindarin elves are both branches of the Teleri that never completed their Great Journey westwards.
They cannot be made by Morgoth. When the Ainur became corrupted, they lost their powers of creation. Morgoth could not create, only corrupt. He could do this to a great extent (elves into orcs, and presumably some sort of bird into dragons) but he could not make anything.
{Doom of Mandos. } 'Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains. On the House of Fëanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin, and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Dispossessed shall they be for ever.
'Ye have spilled the blood of your kindred unrighteously and have stained the land of Aman. For blood ye shall render blood, and beyond Aman ye shall dwell in Death's shadow. For though Eru appointed to you to die not in Eä, and no sickness may assail you, yet slain ye may be, and slain ye shall be: by weapon and by torment and by grief; and your houseless spirits shall come then to Mandos. There long shall ye abide and yearn for your bodies, and find little pity though all whom ye have slain should entreat for you. And those that endure in Middle-earth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden, and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger race that cometh after. The Valar have spoken.'
So note how this was to the Noldar that went with Feanor. Please note that this is just about the Noldar, not the Sindar, and Silvan elves, and they would not be effected by this "Faiding of the Eldar" The Sindar, lived under the same 'light' which came from Melian.
And now back to your point.
The Orcs are not based off of the Noldar, but rather the Avari. My Silven, and espshally the Sindar would be much better than the orcs, and maybe even as good as the Noldar at this point. And beside, it never that the orcs where elves. They may just be creatures made by Morgoth. I'll PM you a video that covers the doom of mandos about 45 minuates in.
I'll post more later.
True, but Melian's power would not give them any light comparable to that of Valinor. It would make the Sindar better than the Silvan elves, yes, but not that much
Better, yes. Not wildly. The Silvan and Sindarin elves are both branches of the Teleri that never completed their Great Journey westwards.
They cannot be made by Morgoth. When the Ainur became corrupted, they lost their powers of creation. Morgoth could not create, only corrupt. He could do this to a great extent (elves into orcs, and presumably some sort of bird into dragons) but he could not make anything.
Also, none of the Ainur (uncorrupted Valar, or otherwise) could create actual souls. They could create life, but any life that they created simply shared their spirit, and simply knew what their creator knew and did what their creator wanted them to do, with no will of their own. Only Eru himself could create living things with their own wills (or at least, he had to grant them free will, as in the case of the Dwarves).
