I say we do, we swear Allegiance, we have flags in services, we die for this country, I have a big problem with that.
"Have flags in services." Which services? American flags don't hang in my church. They don't hand in many churches.
That aside, I have an allegiance to my family, have a portrait of family members in my house, and would die for them. I don't practice ancestor worship. How does what you said line up with worshiping the country? It's a lovely opinion of yours, but again there is no objective backing.
I would do the same for my Family but God comes first, I think you have all twisted what Jesus said, 2nd Peter addresses the same issue, I am glad America has given us some good things but my Allegiance is for it.
They all are "Good" patriotic Americans, You'll find they get more mad if you attack America than if you attacked their Beliefs.
Buddy. I'm right-wing. I somehow think that what you're saying is dead wrong.
Right wing, that explains a lot. oh I don't know, to be honest I don't know to much about Orthodox on Government, but most little "Bible" Churches tend to get really mad if you say anything about America that's Negative, as I've now seen.
The Beginning of Job will help you understand a little more, also who cares about this life? We will be in Heaven and what does are lives on Earth have anything to do with Heaven, its good if you don't like your Government, You'll have no confusion on on passages of the Bible.
If you really don't care about this life too much, why are you so insistent on attacking America, which is so temporary?
... "What do our lives on Earth have anything to do with heaven?" Really? How about "everything"? You know you're not allowed in unless you do the right things on this Earth, right?
Correction, you're not allowed in if you don't trust Jesus. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."
I attack America and any other nation who is evil, we don't fight them with Violence but that doesn't mean they aren't evil and their faults to be noted.
Isn't that all nations, according to you? If that's the case why aren't you attacking North Korea or Russia? Like I said, I will criticize what my country does wrong and praise what they do right. You seem to only attack the wrongs and ignore all rights.
I agree, they do some things wrong and some things right, it's good to have a fair, balanced view of it.
Have you noticed how he slams America for any breach of freedom, but when we demonstrate countries that are a thousand times worse, to show how much good America actually has, then he says
that what governments say doesn't matter and they can't do anything to us?
Well there's only so much we can do.
In America's younger years, the point of debates was for two people to show each other their opposing views and do their best in presenting their reasons for their views. Then the loser of the debate would adopt the winner's correct views, but these days most people hold to their views regardless of how many times/ways they've been proven wrong.
Well its not really Communist anyway, but the situation is very similar to Decius. Christians who join are wrong but that's another story, I won't swear allegiance to the flag, fortunately I have that right but it might get taken one day, in Medieval Times, Christianity was in hiding from the RCC who are Heretics.
Out of curiosity, if the Catholic church are heretics, to what belief do you adhere? The only churches that existed contemporary with or before the Roman church are Orthodox, and being Orthodox myself I can quickly tell that you're not. If you belong to any form of Protestant denomination -- including a "non-denominational" church, you belong to a set of beliefs diluted by people who belonged to a church diluted by corruption and paganism. To belong to a Protestant church and call the Catholics heretics is very ... ironic, and to be Orthodox and as toxic as you are is simply impossible from what I know.
To be Protestant just means that you don't have to adhere to any church's set beliefs or customs. You don't have any "rules" other than the ones given in the Bible, and you are allowed to disagree with the pastor or church based on your own knowledge of the Bible.
Out of curiosity, if the Catholic church are heretics, to what belief do you adhere? The only churches that existed contemporary with or before the Roman church are Orthodox, and being Orthodox myself I can quickly tell that you're not. If you belong to any form of Protestant denomination -- including a "non-denominational" church, you belong to a set of beliefs diluted by people who belonged to a church diluted by corruption and paganism. To belong to a Protestant church and call the Catholics heretics is very ... ironic, and to be Orthodox and as toxic as you are is simply impossible from what I know.
I am sort of a Old School Protestant, BUT I have a lot of problems with all of their denominations, I'm pretty much like the Pilgrims, but I have a couple of issues with them, I am a Bible Christian but that term is stolen of late, I'm afraid I don't agree with the Orthodox's on everything either.
To be Protestant basically just means you are a "Bible Christian," as you are free to base your own beliefs on what the Bible says and not the word of any man. So you don't really have to agree with any denomination to be a Protestant.
I am sort of a Old School Protestant, BUT I have a lot of problems with all of their denominations, I'm pretty much like the Pilgrims, but I have a couple of issues with them, I am a Bible Christian but that term is stolen of late, I'm afraid I don't agree with the Orthodox's on everything either.
If you're a Protestant at all you have absolutely no right to think that you somehow know better than Christian groups that have existed since the days after the Crucifixion. I don't adhere to all practices of any given sect and I believe that there is only one requirement to be a Christian (to repent of your sins and acknowledge Christ as the one who absolved you of your sins with his sacrifice), but to consider all other churches heretical because they don't line up with a belief that formed anywhere between 1500-2000 years after Christ's passing is ridiculous.
Protestantism began when Martin Luther said "We don't have to do what the pope says, we need to be doing what the Bible says." That may have happened a long time after the crucifixion, but the idea was that we obey God's Word as it is taught in the Bible, which has been around much longer.
1. Because America has problems and isn't perfect. My point is that is that America is far better than many, if not almost all, countries that have ever been. 2. Maybe. The oppression is so bad in North Korea it's hard to witness there. And, if you are out to attack evil, you should attack North Korea greatly, for being evil murderous liars. 3. I said they weren't. Many were deists. However, many were Christian, at least nominally, and incorporated many Christian principles into America. 4. That was Rome. Not America. And, I'm not to sure about Christians in the military or Government, but, again, my whole point was that America has problems but is not entirely evil and has done vast amounts of good.
1, that's quite a stretch but its a lesser of 2 evils. 2. America is Evil Murderous Liars, far worse than North Korea as in fooling Christians. 3. Nowhere in the Constitution or Declaration of Independence even mention God, this country has already abandoned the freedom of Religion Stance. 4. I would say its the same, we get "Christian Presidents"
3. "All men are created equal" That is not a mention of God by name, but it is certainly a reference to Him.
1, that's quite a stretch but its a lesser of 2 evils. 2. America is Evil Murderous Liars, far worse than North Korea as in fooling Christians. 3. Nowhere in the Constitution or Declaration of Independence even mention God, this country has already abandoned the freedom of Religion Stance. 4. I would say its the same, we get "Christian Presidents"
1. If it's the lesser of two evils then why are you implying it isn't? 2. Again, religion is illegal in North Korea. It's not in the US. And, how are they "fooling" Christians...? 3. God is mentioned everywhere in the US. In God We Trust. One nation under God. God Bless America. And, we still have freedom of religion. When's the last time someone's been punished for practicing a certain religion? Are you writing this from a prison cell? 4. Um, separation of church and state doesn't mean that religious people can't be leaders. It means that the government and church don't decide what the other does.
I don't mean to say we don't have freedom of religion, but it has been undermined in the (very recent) past. For example, two men (whose names I can't remember) were arrested for "disturbing the peace" at an Islam gathering. They were holding Bibles and had T-Shirts that said "Ask me if you have questions about the Bible" or something along those lines.
I think it would probably be best if we steered this conversation back in the direction of historical events, which are at least somewhat less controversial.
I don't, some countries are worse than others, this one has fooled Christians into thinking this country is somehow a great nation following God, this is what I attack, what's the difference between here and Rome, Christians wouldn't pledge allegiance to Caesar, as I won't to the New Caesar.
In Great Britain, the Anglican Church is controlled by the monarch. The church is literally a part of the state. Just saying. How is America "fooling" Christians, again?
Does being the largest power equal being evil?
I'm afraid it does mean Evil, Largest always is.England is the Official State Religion, but there are many other Christians who don't follow them, they don't have English flags in their Churches. Fooling Christians by saying this nation is following God, people in Power claiming to be Christians, they think they're following God when being Patriotic, unfortunately they worship the beast.
Nobody claims this nation follows God. We're a secular state and we don't interfere with what people worship. That doesn't mean we don't do good things.
Interesting syllogism:
God is the largest power in the universe. The "largest" in any system is evil. Therefore, God is evil.
See how that... doesn't add up?
✠✙ What once was old doth fade away/But Former Glory stays the same ✙✠ •••Unity•••Duty•••DESTINY••• ***EST. 2006*** • 9/11/01 • BCC: 2010-2014 • EX-TER-MIN-ATE! –Dalek
If you're a Protestant at all you have absolutely no right to think that you somehow know better than Christian groups that have existed since the days after the Crucifixion. I don't adhere to all practices of any given sect and I believe that there is only one requirement to be a Christian (to repent of your sins and acknowledge Christ as the one who absolved you of your sins with his sacrifice), but to consider all other churches heretical because they don't line up with a belief that formed anywhere between 1500-2000 years after Christ's passing is ridiculous.
That Argument is ridiculous, Some say Hinduism is the oldest, does that mean its right? I don't think Orthodox are right either, they are much like Catholics, sure they split in 1054, but they still have horrible faults. Yes but there is more to that, Christ is the Son of God, which I'm sure you meant, but Orthodox don't even really believe that, if that's true why do we need Icons, and Vestments, and Huge Church buildings (which aren't even in the bible)?
It's not ridiculous. Christianity is a fulfillment of Judaism, which also has claims to being the oldest religion. By refusing Christianity's original teachings for a teaching that came about 1800 years later, you're missing the point by 1800 years.
I assure you Orthodox Christians believe that Jesus is the son of God. We say that probably twenty times during services.
We don't need icons, but we have them to commemorate godly Christians in much the same way you probably have a picture of your grandparents in your house.
We don't need vestments, either. That's just a traditional carryover from days when everyone wore robes and the clergy would wear a specific garment to distinguish themselves.
We definitely don't need huge church buildings. One Orthodox church I attended was literally in a rented-out office floor because they couldn't afford to build a church. Another church was about the size of my house, and the next church was smaller. My current church is larger than all of those, but still much smaller than literally every Protestant church I've visited regardless of denomination. The only "huge church buildings" you'll see are in the Middle East and were build in the 400s-800s when the Orthodox church was at its height prior to the Muslim conquests.
You know what else isn't in the Bible? Substituting wine with grape juice during communion. Having a Christian rock group play gospel rock during services. The concept of "Sunday school." You'll find that many common Christian practices aren't in the Bible. That doesn't necessarily make them evil.
If a church claimed that you required non-Biblical things to be saved (such as paying indulgences in the Catholic church), or if they practiced things clearly against God's word (such as selling animals for sacrifice within the synagogue), I would understand your complaint.
✠✙ What once was old doth fade away/But Former Glory stays the same ✙✠ •••Unity•••Duty•••DESTINY••• ***EST. 2006*** • 9/11/01 • BCC: 2010-2014 • EX-TER-MIN-ATE! –Dalek
I think it would probably be best if we steered this conversation back in the direction of historical events, which are at least somewhat less controversial.
I think the Convo is fine (and intersting ) but dosn't belong in a history chatroom. Maybe someone should make a debate room or a modern events chatroom?
) but dosn't belong in a history chatroom. Maybe someone should make a debate room or a modern events chatroom?