*My troops smash your troops while they smash my windows.*
OOC: Indeed.
Yah.
*As soon as the first two ranks have entered the castle, they are attacked from both sides by my Bree Guardsmen, who were waiting there for them to enter. They quickly cause havoc in the front lines of the testudo.*
*My siege engines smash your troops while they smash mine who are smashing your windows.*
OOC: Indeed.
*The first few ranks are devastated, but the rest are alerted to your position, and quickly form another testudo. They push into the castle, falling upon your Guardsmen and dealing a lot of hits.*
*My siege engines smash your siege engines who are smashing my troops who are smashing your troops who are smashing my windows....*
OOC: Indeed.
*While your troops are forming another testudo, mine withdraw slightly, and form up again. My troops then attack while yours are still in a testudo, wreaking more havoc with the lines.*
OOC: To heck with Sun Tzu. FYI, testudos can't really hold up in a melee battle. They're great against arrows, but only because the positioning of their shields allows them to create a virtual wall. For the same reason, the troops really can't use their weapons, since they'd have to break through the shields to do so. Furthermore, testudos are notoriously lacking in mobility (both for individual units and as a whole). So yeah, you usually want to switch formations before engaging in a melee.
The day of prosperity makes one forget adversity; The day of adversity makes one forget prosperity.
Shamrock : Not sure you saw this post, I kinda failed on the jammers. If not, here it is.
Oh, right. Thanks.
*The siege engines start firing at the Mammoths as soon as they come into range.*
Sure thing.
*The riders attempt to steer the mammoths clear of the fire, though a couple mammoths are downed. Nevertheless, they continue charging in this manner, till they reach the Dunlending lines.*
*My other troops follow behind the mammoths. Once in arrow range, all archers peel off to the flanks, and open fire on the Dunlendings.*
The day of prosperity makes one forget adversity; The day of adversity makes one forget prosperity.
*My siege engines smash your troops while they smash mine who are smashing your windows.*
OOC: Indeed.
*The first few ranks are devastated, but the rest are alerted to your position, and quickly form another testudo. They push into the castle, falling upon your Guardsmen and dealing a lot of hits.*
*My siege engines smash your siege engines who are smashing my troops who are smashing your troops who are smashing my windows....*
OOC: Indeed.
*While your troops are forming another testudo, mine withdraw slightly, and form up again. My troops then attack while yours are still in a testudo, wreaking more havoc with the lines.*
OOC: To heck with Sun Tzu. FYI, testudos can't really hold up in a melee battle. They're great against arrows, but only because the positioning of their shields allows them to create a virtual wall. For the same reason, the troops really can't use their weapons, since they'd have to break through the shields to do so. Furthermore, testudos are notoriously lacking in mobility (both for individual units and as a whole). So yeah, you usually want to switch formations before engaging in a melee.
OOC: I'd like to draw your attention to a Rangers Apprentice book known as The Emporer of Nijon-ja. In that book, their is actually several groups of soldiers using a technique in the book that draws on the advantage of the large shields that a testudo normally has. If the shields are large enough, then stabbing through the cracks allows for numerous units to work as one against an opponent, in a testudo formation. While it has it's weaknesses, a swordsmen has no way to exploit any of them. Pikemen have the capacity to do damage, but it's still much slower fighting than a normal battle scenario.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
*yesterday. 5,000 orcs pass through, staying away from enemy units.*
*As they cross the Glanduin ford, a shower of arrows falls upon them from somewhere on the southern shore. Simultaneously, a single horn blows loud and long.*
*A bunch of Lossoth Sled Riders then appear in the distance, with six Mammoths behind them. The Sled Riders get just within arrow range, at which point they fire, then move back out of range. Arrow fire also continues to come from the undergrowth near the river. The mammoths wait out of range.*
OOC: Surprise.
Please quote the post these left the main group.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
*My siege engines smash your siege engines who are smashing my troops who are smashing your troops who are smashing my windows....*
OOC: Indeed.
*While your troops are forming another testudo, mine withdraw slightly, and form up again. My troops then attack while yours are still in a testudo, wreaking more havoc with the lines.*
OOC: To heck with Sun Tzu. FYI, testudos can't really hold up in a melee battle. They're great against arrows, but only because the positioning of their shields allows them to create a virtual wall. For the same reason, the troops really can't use their weapons, since they'd have to break through the shields to do so. Furthermore, testudos are notoriously lacking in mobility (both for individual units and as a whole). So yeah, you usually want to switch formations before engaging in a melee.
OOC: I'd like to draw your attention to a Rangers Apprentice book known as The Emporer of Nijon-ja. In that book, their is actually several groups of soldiers using a technique in the book that draws on the advantage of the large shields that a testudo normally has. If the shields are large enough, then stabbing through the cracks allows for numerous units to work as one against an opponent, in a testudo formation. While it has it's weaknesses, a swordsmen has no way to exploit any of them. Pikemen have the capacity to do damage, but it's still much slower fighting than a normal battle scenario.
Ah yes, that's one of flyingfroggy12's favorite books, tho I haven't read it myself. However, I believe there's a couple differences here:
1. Most of the soldiers in that book, if memory serves me, were trained, disciplined warriors, who knew how to use their weapons. These units are Dunlendings, who, while capable of pulling off basic formations, would have none of the discpline or training which allowed the RA soldiers to pull this off. 2. These Hamat units are not swordsmen. The Hamat shields carry pikes, while the javelins carry, well, duh. Given their description at the A&U, I believe the Shield units are supposed to be in front. However, trying to use a pike within a testudo would probably be much more difficult than a sword, for example. Furthermore, pikes are two handed weapons, but you need at least one hand to hold the shield. So I'm not really sure what he's doing with the pikes, since there's not much that can be done. 3. RA is good, but it's still fiction. It's written by a guy from Australia who may very well have never wielded a real shield in his life. I'm not going to say it works simply because it was used in RA.
The day of prosperity makes one forget adversity; The day of adversity makes one forget prosperity.
*As they cross the Glanduin ford, a shower of arrows falls upon them from somewhere on the southern shore. Simultaneously, a single horn blows loud and long.*
*A bunch of Lossoth Sled Riders then appear in the distance, with six Mammoths behind them. The Sled Riders get just within arrow range, at which point they fire, then move back out of range. Arrow fire also continues to come from the undergrowth near the river. The mammoths wait out of range.*
OOC: Surprise.
Please quote the post these left the main group.
Will do.
The day of prosperity makes one forget adversity; The day of adversity makes one forget prosperity.
*My siege engines smash your troops while they smash mine who are smashing your windows.*
OOC: Indeed.
*The first few ranks are devastated, but the rest are alerted to your position, and quickly form another testudo. They push into the castle, falling upon your Guardsmen and dealing a lot of hits.*
*My siege engines smash your siege engines who are smashing my troops who are smashing your troops who are smashing my windows....*
OOC: Indeed.
*While your troops are forming another testudo, mine withdraw slightly, and form up again. My troops then attack while yours are still in a testudo, wreaking more havoc with the lines.*
OOC: To heck with Sun Tzu. FYI, testudos can't really hold up in a melee battle. They're great against arrows, but only because the positioning of their shields allows them to create a virtual wall. For the same reason, the troops really can't use their weapons, since they'd have to break through the shields to do so. Furthermore, testudos are notoriously lacking in mobility (both for individual units and as a whole). So yeah, you usually want to switch formations before engaging in a melee.
*Galadron/Sauron smashes your siege engines who are smashing my siege engines who are smashing your troops who are smashing mine who are smashing your windows*
OOC: Indeed.
*The troops form a Phalanx instead*
OOC: I'm really wishing I got a book on tactics rather than an Illustrated Signs and Symbols Sourcebook for Christmas now. *Goes off to fing more formations on the internet*
*The siege engines start firing at the Mammoths as soon as they come into range.*
Sure thing.
*The riders attempt to steer the mammoths clear of the fire, though a couple mammoths are downed. Nevertheless, they continue charging in this manner, till they reach the Dunlending lines.*
*My other troops follow behind the mammoths. Once in arrow range, all archers peel off to the flanks, and open fire on the Dunlendings.*
*The siege engines keep firing, downing more Mammoths, while the bulk of the infantry move towards the castle you built for me.*
*My siege engines smash your siege engines who are smashing my troops who are smashing your troops who are smashing my windows....*
OOC: Indeed.
*While your troops are forming another testudo, mine withdraw slightly, and form up again. My troops then attack while yours are still in a testudo, wreaking more havoc with the lines.*
OOC: To heck with Sun Tzu. FYI, testudos can't really hold up in a melee battle. They're great against arrows, but only because the positioning of their shields allows them to create a virtual wall. For the same reason, the troops really can't use their weapons, since they'd have to break through the shields to do so. Furthermore, testudos are notoriously lacking in mobility (both for individual units and as a whole). So yeah, you usually want to switch formations before engaging in a melee.
*Galadron/Sauron smashes your siege engines who are smashing my siege engines who are smashing your troops who are smashing mine who are smashing your windows*
OOC: Indeed.
*The troops form a Phalanx instead*
OOC: I'm really wishing I got a book on tactics rather than an Illustrated Signs and Symbols Sourcebook for Christmas now. *Goes off to fing more formations on the internet*
*Eru casts Galadron into the Void for smashing...*
OOC: Indeed.
*My troops rush up and attack yours while they are forming the Phalanx.*
OOC: Yeah, that might have been helpful. Good luck in your search.
The day of prosperity makes one forget adversity; The day of adversity makes one forget prosperity.
OOC: I'd like to draw your attention to a Rangers Apprentice book known as The Emporer of Nijon-ja. In that book, their is actually several groups of soldiers using a technique in the book that draws on the advantage of the large shields that a testudo normally has. If the shields are large enough, then stabbing through the cracks allows for numerous units to work as one against an opponent, in a testudo formation. While it has it's weaknesses, a swordsmen has no way to exploit any of them. Pikemen have the capacity to do damage, but it's still much slower fighting than a normal battle scenario.
Ah yes, that's one of flyingfroggy12's favorite books, tho I haven't read it myself. However, I believe there's a couple differences here:
1. Most of the soldiers in that book, if memory serves me, were trained, disciplined warriors, who knew how to use their weapons. These units are Dunlendings, who, while capable of pulling off basic formations, would have none of the discpline or training which allowed the RA soldiers to pull this off. 2. These Hamat units are not swordsmen. The Hamat shields carry pikes, while the javelins carry, well, duh. Given their description at the A&U, I believe the Shield units are supposed to be in front. However, trying to use a pike within a testudo would probably be much more difficult than a sword, for example. Furthermore, pikes are two handed weapons, but you need at least one hand to hold the shield. So I'm not really sure what he's doing with the pikes, since there's not much that can be done. 3. RA is good, but it's still fiction. It's written by a guy from Australia who may very well have never wielded a real shield in his life. I'm not going to say it works simply because it was used in RA.
From what I can tell, if they were trained right then it would work fine. Also, while the first group we see are very well trained, the next group was a group of Lumberjacks given shoddy pikes and large shields, and 6 months of training 10 at a time. 200 were trained this way, and that is WHY it works so efficiently: Low-trained units can be much more efficient. However, the pikes and javelins. . . yeah, not really. While their were Javelins in RA, it didn't make as much sense how they pulled it off.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
*The riders attempt to steer the mammoths clear of the fire, though a couple mammoths are downed. Nevertheless, they continue charging in this manner, till they reach the Dunlending lines.*
*My other troops follow behind the mammoths. Once in arrow range, all archers peel off to the flanks, and open fire on the Dunlendings.*
*The siege engines keep firing, downing more Mammoths, while the bulk of the infantry move towards the castle you built for me.*
*My mammoths turn and bear down on the bulk of your infantry, still followed by most of my troops. However, many of my Hobbit Archers, a few Bree Guardsmen, and all of my Rangers stop. All archers in that group begin to fire arrows at your siege engine operators.*
The day of prosperity makes one forget adversity; The day of adversity makes one forget prosperity.
got it. so you wrote: A bunch of Lossoth Sled Riders then appear in the distance, with six Mammoths behind them. The Sled Riders get just within arrow range, at which point they fire, then move back out of range. Arrow fire also continues to come from the undergrowth near the river. The mammoths wait out of range.*
I'll reply:
*The DASTs fire upon the Mammoths.* *The goblin Trappers slip away without being seen.* *The other goblins move into the most advantegous position for them: Hiding from the sled riders behind the tanks.* *The Archer Crews inside the DAST's fire at the Sled riders when they come into play.*
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
got it. so you wrote: A bunch of Lossoth Sled Riders then appear in the distance, with six Mammoths behind them. The Sled Riders get just within arrow range, at which point they fire, then move back out of range. Arrow fire also continues to come from the undergrowth near the river. The mammoths wait out of range.*
I'll reply:
*The DASTs fire upon the Mammoths.* *The goblin Trappers slip away without being seen.* *The other goblins move into the most advantegous position for them: Hiding from the sled riders behind the tanks.* *The Archer Crews inside the DAST's fire at the Sled riders when they come into play.*
Just to clarify, half of your army would probably be on one side of the river, while the other half would be on the other side (probably some in the middle, too). Though I guess it's up to you who is on which side, depending upon what order your troops were marching in.
But anyways. . . *5,750 Bree-men arrive. Some come on rafts from up-river, while others march in from the North.*
{Troops on the river} 25 mangonels (with Brandybuck operators), 8 each, 200 total 400 Brandybuck rivermen, 2 each, 800 total 425 units, 1,000 MWE
These troops are organized onto 50 rafts: 25 each have 1 mangonel and 5 rivermen, and 25 with 11 rivermen. The rafts have large boards attached to most of the sides, creating short walls that the Hobbits can hide behind.