OOC: I'm not sure what's happening here either, but as to the Trebuchets, you can make a larger version than a regular trebuchet without changing the design; you just have to pay the SMWE for it.
Actually, that's not quite the case. While you can just upscale things to some degree, any major change in size requires at least a partially new design. Changes in load and stress isn't exactly linear with increases in size, and simply changing the dimensions of a structure will also change the stress points, which means that you'll have structural issues where you didn't have them before.
Yes, but it would be basically the same design, simply with different stress points and a different chassis. The Trebuchet is basically a catapult powered by gravity - anything larger or smaller but powered by the same thing and used in the same way is also a Trebuchet.
I may be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure I'm right - you can have small and large onagers, small and large catapults, but they'll be the same thing, built with the same basic mechanisms.
Actually, that's not quite the case. While you can just upscale things to some degree, any major change in size requires at least a partially new design. Changes in load and stress isn't exactly linear with increases in size, and simply changing the dimensions of a structure will also change the stress points, which means that you'll have structural issues where you didn't have them before.
Yes, but it would be basically the same design, simply with different stress points and a different chassis. The Trebuchet is basically a catapult powered by gravity - anything larger or smaller but powered by the same thing and used in the same way is also a Trebuchet.
I may be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure I'm right - you can have small and large onagers, small and large catapults, but they'll be the same thing, built with the same basic mechanisms.
Yes, but for the purpose of the RP, you need to create a new unit. As we said, it isn't a big deal, just post it so it's up their before using it. At least, for Gondor it is. Rohan, I'd argue the canonicity, but you know. . .
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
Actually, that's not quite the case. While you can just upscale things to some degree, any major change in size requires at least a partially new design. Changes in load and stress isn't exactly linear with increases in size, and simply changing the dimensions of a structure will also change the stress points, which means that you'll have structural issues where you didn't have them before.
Yes, but it would be basically the same design, simply with different stress points and a different chassis. The Trebuchet is basically a catapult powered by gravity - anything larger or smaller but powered by the same thing and used in the same way is also a Trebuchet.
I may be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure I'm right - you can have small and large onagers, small and large catapults, but they'll be the same thing, built with the same basic mechanisms.
Yes and no. Yes, the concepts are still the same. If you're building a certain type of catapult, it's going to use the same basic components and mechanisms as any other catapult of the same kind, regardless of size (within reason). However, it's not as simply as building the same thing on a larger scale (especially with something that's already big). The idea is the same, but a major change in scale also requires a completely new design as far as the structure. Plus, some parts don't always take well to being resized, and may have to be partially redesigned (things like the trigger, sling release, reloading mechanism, etc.).
Again, yes, but it's not that simple. You can have a big trebuchet and a little trebuchet, but the structure of the big trebuchet is going to be vastly different from the structure of the little trebuchet because of the higher stress.
Yes, but it would be basically the same design, simply with different stress points and a different chassis. The Trebuchet is basically a catapult powered by gravity - anything larger or smaller but powered by the same thing and used in the same way is also a Trebuchet.
I may be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure I'm right - you can have small and large onagers, small and large catapults, but they'll be the same thing, built with the same basic mechanisms.
Yes and no. Yes, the concepts are still the same. If you're building a certain type of catapult, it's going to use the same basic components and mechanisms as any other catapult of the same kind, regardless of size (within reason). However, it's not as simply as building the same thing on a larger scale (especially with something that's already big). The idea is the same, but a major change in scale also requires a completely new design as far as the structure. Plus, some parts don't always take well to being resized, and may have to be partially redesigned (things like the trigger, sling release, reloading mechanism, etc.).
Again, yes, but it's not that simple. You can have a big trebuchet and a little trebuchet, but the structure of the big trebuchet is going to be vastly different from the structure of the little trebuchet because of the higher stress.
I'm not going to argue the physics with you - the way we treat MWE, however, allows us to have a basic swordsman worth 1 MWE, then a basic swordsman worth 5 MWE while only having to pass one of them. If you throw more MWE on something basically, you make it better. This is actually more of a question than a statement, honestly. I always thought we could make a different version of what we already had, but I may be wrong.
As to going and proposing it, all it does is slow down the battle and give people an opportunity to shoot it down for the sake of this battle, and not the canonicity of it.
Yes and no. Yes, the concepts are still the same. If you're building a certain type of catapult, it's going to use the same basic components and mechanisms as any other catapult of the same kind, regardless of size (within reason). However, it's not as simply as building the same thing on a larger scale (especially with something that's already big). The idea is the same, but a major change in scale also requires a completely new design as far as the structure. Plus, some parts don't always take well to being resized, and may have to be partially redesigned (things like the trigger, sling release, reloading mechanism, etc.).
Again, yes, but it's not that simple. You can have a big trebuchet and a little trebuchet, but the structure of the big trebuchet is going to be vastly different from the structure of the little trebuchet because of the higher stress.
I'm not going to argue the physics with you - the way we treat MWE, however, allows us to have a basic swordsman worth 1 MWE, then a basic swordsman worth 5 MWE while only having to pass one of them. If you throw more MWE on something basically, you make it better. This is actually more of a question than a statement, honestly. I always thought we could make a different version of what we already had, but I may be wrong.
As to going and proposing it, all it does is slow down the battle and give people an opportunity to shoot it down for the sake of this battle, and not the canonicity of it.
And I don't really know about that. As far as I remember, people generally just post another unit in their lists for the same thing with higher (or lower) worth. And if that's the only major change, then if one unit gets through the other one should too.
Well if you post the unit before trying to use it, then you won't have that problem as much.
The Morgul Cavalry charge the undefended dwarven siege engines from behind, smashing operators and slashing ropes. They charge in a curve, rather than head on, so that they are gone before any significant number of soldiers are aware of them.
The Siege Operators have prepared for this. Acting quickly, they grab bolts meant for the Siege Ballistae and plant them in the ground as stakes to deter the riders. There are only two rows, but it's more than enough to impale a horse moving at a gallop.
When the cavalry arrives at the Siege Operators their horses suddenly rear up and scream. Many of the riders are unseated because of this. The rear rank of Heavy Crossbowmen turns quickly and fires point blank at the horse's flanks. The Walking Artillery fires at the riders themselves. These small ballistae are devastating at close range, and this is shown as their bolts punch through shields and armor to spear many of the Morgul cavalry.
OOC: How can they have prepared for it? They would have no reason to suspect any attack, or the manner of said attack, from this direction. What is the reasoning for the horses rearing up and screaming? These are horses and riders that move like ordered shadows.
IC: As this attack is thoroughly unexpected, the Gondorians having no way to know that an attack would come from that direction, the Siege Operators are unable to properly set up their defensive line. Due to the curving manner of the attack, the ballistae are unable to get many good shots. A small section of the line is thoroughly smashed up by the attack, and the distraction means that losses are reduced on the main army the Gondorians are fighting.
The Siege Operators have prepared for this. Acting quickly, they grab bolts meant for the Siege Ballistae and plant them in the ground as stakes to deter the riders. There are only two rows, but it's more than enough to impale a horse moving at a gallop.
When the cavalry arrives at the Siege Operators their horses suddenly rear up and scream. Many of the riders are unseated because of this. The rear rank of Heavy Crossbowmen turns quickly and fires point blank at the horse's flanks. The Walking Artillery fires at the riders themselves. These small ballistae are devastating at close range, and this is shown as their bolts punch through shields and armor to spear many of the Morgul cavalry.
OOC: How can they have prepared for it? They would have no reason to suspect any attack, or the manner of said attack, from this direction. What is the reasoning for the horses rearing up and screaming? These are horses and riders that move like ordered shadows.
IC: As this attack is thoroughly unexpected, the Gondorians having no way to know that an attack would come from that direction, the Siege Operators are unable to properly set up their defensive line. Due to the curving manner of the attack, the ballistae are unable to get many good shots. A small section of the line is thoroughly smashed up by the attack, and the distraction means that losses are reduced on the main army the Gondorians are fighting.
OOC: I pretty much agree with all of that, and I would like to add that siege weaponry is in fact less effective at very close range because they have a minimum firing arc that means they will struggle to hit them without doing crazy stuff, like lifting up the back of the ballista
Rex This isn't my really long post, that has yet to come. It's unlikely to come today because I have promised to work on some LMBE website design
One mod to rule them all and in the darkness ban them - Lord of the Mods "I am the Mod Reborn!" - masterlegobuilders I'm the real boss
OOC: How can they have prepared for it? They would have no reason to suspect any attack, or the manner of said attack, from this direction. What is the reasoning for the horses rearing up and screaming? These are horses and riders that move like ordered shadows.
IC: As this attack is thoroughly unexpected, the Gondorians having no way to know that an attack would come from that direction, the Siege Operators are unable to properly set up their defensive line. Due to the curving manner of the attack, the ballistae are unable to get many good shots. A small section of the line is thoroughly smashed up by the attack, and the distraction means that losses are reduced on the main army the Gondorians are fighting.
OOC: I pretty much agree with all of that, and I would like to add that siege weaponry is in fact less effective at very close range because they have a minimum firing arc that means they will struggle to hit them without doing crazy stuff, like lifting up the back of the ballista
Rex This isn't my really long post, that has yet to come. It's unlikely to come today because I have promised to work on some LMBE website design
Ah, I see. EVERYONE, MLB IS WORKING ON SOME TOP-SECRET DESIGN STUFF.
The Siege Operators have prepared for this. Acting quickly, they grab bolts meant for the Siege Ballistae and plant them in the ground as stakes to deter the riders. There are only two rows, but it's more than enough to impale a horse moving at a gallop.
When the cavalry arrives at the Siege Operators their horses suddenly rear up and scream. Many of the riders are unseated because of this. The rear rank of Heavy Crossbowmen turns quickly and fires point blank at the horse's flanks. The Walking Artillery fires at the riders themselves. These small ballistae are devastating at close range, and this is shown as their bolts punch through shields and armor to spear many of the Morgul cavalry.
OOC: How can they have prepared for it? They would have no reason to suspect any attack, or the manner of said attack, from this direction. What is the reasoning for the horses rearing up and screaming? These are horses and riders that move like ordered shadows.
IC: As this attack is thoroughly unexpected, the Gondorians having no way to know that an attack would come from that direction, the Siege Operators are unable to properly set up their defensive line. Due to the curving manner of the attack, the ballistae are unable to get many good shots. A small section of the line is thoroughly smashed up by the attack, and the distraction means that losses are reduced on the main army the Gondorians are fighting.
OOC: OK. First, you're attacking the dwarves. Second, the ballistae I spoke of were the Walking Artillery, not the siege engines. Third, the Dwarves aren't actually in battle yet.
The horses are rearing up and screaming because they stepped on caltrops. No horse can step on something like this without rearing up and screaming.
It's not that hard to anticipate an attack from behind and watch for it. It's also not hard to see a cavalry charge coming from a distance, especially on the plains of Lebennin.
IC: The Crossbowmen and the Artillery continue their attack until the cavalry has left. However, several siege engines were destroyed and many operators were smashed.
400 of the Gondorian Pikemen move towards this army.
Yes, but it would be basically the same design, simply with different stress points and a different chassis. The Trebuchet is basically a catapult powered by gravity - anything larger or smaller but powered by the same thing and used in the same way is also a Trebuchet.
I may be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure I'm right - you can have small and large onagers, small and large catapults, but they'll be the same thing, built with the same basic mechanisms.
Yes, but for the purpose of the RP, you need to create a new unit. As we said, it isn't a big deal, just post it so it's up their before using it. At least, for Gondor it is. Rohan, I'd argue the canonicity, but you know. . .
I actually did post this unit with my army list. It's at the very bottom under "Gondorian Trebuchet".
OOC: How can they have prepared for it? They would have no reason to suspect any attack, or the manner of said attack, from this direction. What is the reasoning for the horses rearing up and screaming? These are horses and riders that move like ordered shadows.
IC: As this attack is thoroughly unexpected, the Gondorians having no way to know that an attack would come from that direction, the Siege Operators are unable to properly set up their defensive line. Due to the curving manner of the attack, the ballistae are unable to get many good shots. A small section of the line is thoroughly smashed up by the attack, and the distraction means that losses are reduced on the main army the Gondorians are fighting.
OOC: OK. First, you're attacking the dwarves. Second, the ballistae I spoke of were the Walking Artillery, not the siege engines. Third, the Dwarves aren't actually in battle yet.
The horses are rearing up and screaming because they stepped on caltrops. No horse can step on something like this without rearing up and screaming.
It's not that hard to anticipate an attack from behind and watch for it. It's also not hard to see a cavalry charge coming from a distance, especially on the plains of Lebennin.
IC: The Crossbowmen and the Artillery continue their attack until the cavalry has left. However, several siege engines were destroyed and many operators were smashed.
400 of the Gondorian Pikemen move towards this army.
OOC: Right. Sorry.
Please direct me to the post where you laid down caltrops.
It's easy to watch for, yes. But they no reason to watch for it. They have no idea only a fragment of Osgiliath remains under Gondorian control. They have no way of knowing the enemy has even crossed the Anduin. It's easy to see, yes. But they have no reason to be looking anywhere but the fierce struggle they are very close to.
