They can absolutely hold them to their front-left (or right), though directly in front is difficult (assuming that they're using a ladder). Depending on how they're climbing up, though, they may be able to put their shield-arm up over the top of the wall first, and then heave themselves up behind. I don't really have the information to say whether that'd be doable right now, though.
Not that I know of. As I said, his losses would depend upon how he approaches things. I don't know exactly how he went about using his artillery, or how quickly/far he approached with them and that's what chiefly determines what each of your losses would be.
If that's really how thick your Troll armor is, then know that what little mobility Trolls typically have is just about gone. Expect them to take several seconds at least to turn around. However, even with such thick armor, you still have the weak points (if you have solid plate over the joints, then your Trolls are statues ). Joints are going to have to be lightly armored to remain actual joints, and an arrow could definitely pierce through there. Even though a hit like that wouldn't be immediately lethal, it would have the strongest effect of any area in the way I talked about before. Plus you've got the eye-holes, which the smaller you make those the poorer your Trolls' visibility will be.
No ladder. They're presumably either jumping up or boosting each other up. It's only 7 or 8 feet, so it would be possible, if not likely. Also, Wouldn't a scorpion bolt fired at them, if it hit, un-balance them enough for them to be sent backwards.
Ok.
Uuugh. Why will nobody ever just let me have my trolls invulnerable to arrows? Would you say all of this with Morian Trolls? The point of have HArmored Trolls and Morian Trolls is so this argument doesn't happen? How can I get out of these arguments without changing my stance? HOW!?!
Because they are horrendously OP otherwise. We saw Mountain Trolls/Hill Trolls go down to a few dozen arrows in RotK. The only reason Legolas didn't smash the Cave Troll with arrows in the movie is because he was one man. 100 archers firing en masse with good quality bows (like Gondorian longbows or Elven bows) could smash a troll in a few volleys. A few javelins would smash a troll in much less time.
They can absolutely hold them to their front-left (or right), though directly in front is difficult (assuming that they're using a ladder). Depending on how they're climbing up, though, they may be able to put their shield-arm up over the top of the wall first, and then heave themselves up behind. I don't really have the information to say whether that'd be doable right now, though.
Not that I know of. As I said, his losses would depend upon how he approaches things. I don't know exactly how he went about using his artillery, or how quickly/far he approached with them and that's what chiefly determines what each of your losses would be.
If that's really how thick your Troll armor is, then know that what little mobility Trolls typically have is just about gone. Expect them to take several seconds at least to turn around. However, even with such thick armor, you still have the weak points (if you have solid plate over the joints, then your Trolls are statues ). Joints are going to have to be lightly armored to remain actual joints, and an arrow could definitely pierce through there. Even though a hit like that wouldn't be immediately lethal, it would have the strongest effect of any area in the way I talked about before. Plus you've got the eye-holes, which the smaller you make those the poorer your Trolls' visibility will be.
No ladder. They're presumably either jumping up or boosting each other up. It's only 7 or 8 feet, so it would be possible, if not likely. Also, Wouldn't a scorpion bolt fired at them, if it hit, un-balance them enough for them to be sent backwards.
Ok.
Uuugh. Why will nobody ever just let me have my trolls invulnerable to arrows? Would you say all of this with Morian Trolls? The point of have HArmored Trolls and Morian Trolls is so this argument doesn't happen? How can I get out of these arguments without changing my stance? HOW!?!
Well, if they're heaving themselves up over the wall and a bolt hits their shield, it'd probably cause that hand to slip off the wall and they'd drop back down with some minor scrapes. If they're actually on top of the wall and getting up off their hands and knees and their shield got hit, not much would really happen (ignoring the possibility of the bolt going through and hitting them, because obviously them actually getting hit would be an actual wound).
Because no unit in this RP is invulnerable to any other. If you look at them, any unit in this RP is capable of taking out any other unit (assuming that they don't get taken out first), with your Trolls being the one possible exception (hence why you get so much backlash to it). Now sure, there are plenty of units that are horribly suited for taking down certain other ones, but they're all capable of it. Get enough pikemen and the axeman in their ranks will go down eventually. Get enough cavalry and they'll eventually break through the pikemen. Get enough archers and the cavalry will only last so long. Get enough axemen, and they end up defeating the archers. But by trying to make your Trolls invulnerable to arrows, you're effectively trying to make it so that regardless of how many archers the enemy has, a single one of your Trolls will always win. That's where the problem is. Keep in mind though that I'm not saying (and I don't think 8L is either) that archers will always beat Trolls, just that the Trolls will take some damage from the archers and will eventually go down (given that there are enough archers). Your Trolls are still extremely resistant to arrow fire, and on average can probably take over two dozen arrows before going down (sometimes way over that given poor, unlucky archers), but they're not quite invincible against them.
No ladder. They're presumably either jumping up or boosting each other up. It's only 7 or 8 feet, so it would be possible, if not likely. Also, Wouldn't a scorpion bolt fired at them, if it hit, un-balance them enough for them to be sent backwards.
Ok.
Uuugh. Why will nobody ever just let me have my trolls invulnerable to arrows? Would you say all of this with Morian Trolls? The point of have HArmored Trolls and Morian Trolls is so this argument doesn't happen? How can I get out of these arguments without changing my stance? HOW!?!
Well, if they're heaving themselves up over the wall and a bolt hits their shield, it'd probably cause that hand to slip off the wall and they'd drop back down with some minor scrapes. If they're actually on top of the wall and getting up off their hands and knees and their shield got hit, not much would really happen (ignoring the possibility of the bolt going through and hitting them, because obviously them actually getting hit would be an actual wound).
Because no unit in this RP is invulnerable to any other. If you look at them, any unit in this RP is capable of taking out any other unit (assuming that they don't get taken out first), with your Trolls being the one possible exception (hence why you get so much backlash to it). Now sure, there are plenty of units that are horribly suited for taking down certain other ones, but they're all capable of it. Get enough pikemen and the axeman in their ranks will go down eventually. Get enough cavalry and they'll eventually break through the pikemen. Get enough archers and the cavalry will only last so long. Get enough axemen, and they end up defeating the archers. But by trying to make your Trolls invulnerable to arrows, you're effectively trying to make it so that regardless of how many archers the enemy has, a single one of your Trolls will always win. That's where the problem is. Keep in mind though that I'm not saying (and I don't think 8L is either) that archers will always beat Trolls, just that the Trolls will take some damage from the archers and will eventually go down (given that there are enough archers). Your Trolls are still extremely resistant to arrow fire, and on average can probably take over two dozen arrows before going down (sometimes way over that given poor, unlucky archers), but they're not quite invincible against them.
Thanks KK.
So I was under the impression that the wall was just rock pilled up, and my elves where jumping up grabing onto it and pulling them selves over.
And note that I have 20 arrchers per troll fireing at them.
C: You really think they're going to just stand on the top of the wall? They just pulled themselves over and droped down. You would have to hit your own wall to do that.
OOC2: This is what I hear. "My trolls are invulnerable" That is way to OP, I don't care how much you spend on it, if it can't be smashed, its OP and should be banned. I'm not sure we agreed on the armor of trolls. They are allready slow due them being rather large, and having thick skin, and having armor would make it almost stationery. Plus its a well known fact that orcs and goblins did not have good armor, and neither would trolls. Certionally not medieval plate armor. In addation, they have 1000 razar sharp armor percing steel brodheads flying toward them propelled by massive longbows. There isn't a lot that can surive that, armored or unarmored. And from the range about 100 feet away I would think, it would be even more powerfull, and there would be far less misses. Meaning that most of the trolls would be smashed or so heavly wounded that they could not fight.
OOC3: Really? That is not my move, my move was that they start to climb over the wall. You will see my next move soon.
IC *Out of the reformed formation bursts several skinchangers in bear form. They jump on the trolls and start attacking them*
*with many of the elves over the wall now they engage with your melee troops*
*my arrchers fire another volly of fire arrows at your siege weapons destroying several*
*All the siege fires at your siege destroying much*
*The Defenders move to engage your tanks, useing thir large shields as protection and they use their spears as levers slowlly pushing your tanks to and over the edge of the pass*
OOC: For your point, if they're dropping from their bellies then they're smashed by the orcs spears. If not, then they are hit by the scorpions. Either way, you're accomplishing nothing. For the second point, my point is that Legolas's longbow (which is more powerful than a Beornings one) could barely prick a beast like this within a yard or two. Add even poor armor, and those longbows are doing nothing. If it was my Morian Troll unit, then I would be perfectly fine taking some losses, but this unit is only still around because people argue these points. And the Trolls aren't invulnerable, I specifically make them vulnerable to lances, siege weapons (even scorpions) and pikes because otherwise, yes their is an OP unit. But Arrows are arguably the least powerful pointy weapon in the RP. Please just stop arguing, I've had this argument way, way, WAY to many times. As for the third thing. . . What? Your elves are climbing over the wall, your Beornings are facing the Tanks with Trolls behind them. I nulled a move that was incorrect.
Some of this is nulled, until such a time that you explain how more than a couple elves have gotten across the wall with so many siege weapons firing over it. *Half the front line, ready for this, swing their flails into the Bears, smashing many. The Second line hit any that suceed to jump on the trolls, as the trolls fall.* *The Other half of the Trolls help the Archer Crew in keeping the Tanks on the Pass.* *My siege weapons at the Beorning Half fire at the siege weapons.* *My siege weapons at the Rivendell Half fire over the wall in their blanket format.*
OK, here's what I'm going to say: I have 110 Siege weapons that got double shots on your original siege weapons before yours got off one. With a 30% sucess rate (more than fair, I'd say. Goatman said 45% for KK in the Dimrill, so. . .) then I would have destroyed 66 with those units alone before you engaged. In addition, I had 20 Trebuchet firing off one shot before you got their, which would be an additional 6 down. Then, you fire and I fire, you would lose your remaining siege engines, losing an additional 33 at least, if you had that many. Your twenty, let's say got 4 Ballista, a Trebuchet and 3 Mangonels. Now, your next group comes in, and my troops will, again, probably get in three shots before you fire, except the Trebuchet which get two. The reason I say this is because scorpions have a lower range than most others, and would have to move through the wreckage of your original siege weapons.
Also, KitKat , If you could clear up stuff on the blanket, Troll armor and also make sure that I got numbers decent for the siege engine fight, that would be great. Sorry for having to call you, but the arguing is getting a little out of hand, and you will probably make an argument that whoever loses can't counter rather quickly.
If you need context for the Blanket thing, 8legos is saying that a large number of his elves would get up and over the wall and immediately able to defend themselves when I have 70 scorpion, 10 Siege ballistae and 30 ballistae firing at separate times, creating a blanket spread over a half-built 20 feet across wall. All siege engines are manned by proper operators, Arrows are flying through arrow slits in the wall at said elves until they are above them.
These are the elves jumping on the wall. As you can see in the bofa, the elves can easyly jump over the dwarves and their spears which if virtical would be a good 8 feet tall. So don't say they couldn't do the jump.
Didn't you have walls on both sides?
And there is no way that your trolls could have knowen that I have skin changers in there, plus they would be way to slow because of their armor. And I have a good 4 skinchangers to each of your trolls.
IC: *my elves contune to attack your orcs* *the skin changers contune to attack and finish smashing your trolls, taking medium losses*
*The beornings split, half going to attack the siege, half going to contune attacking the tanks*
OOC: Your tanks aren't wall to wall are they? Since if not there would be gaps and thats how my troops got through
*Siege fires one final volly at your troops be fore pulling back to avoid friendly fire.*
No ladder. They're presumably either jumping up or boosting each other up. It's only 7 or 8 feet, so it would be possible, if not likely. Also, Wouldn't a scorpion bolt fired at them, if it hit, un-balance them enough for them to be sent backwards.
Ok.
Uuugh. Why will nobody ever just let me have my trolls invulnerable to arrows? Would you say all of this with Morian Trolls? The point of have HArmored Trolls and Morian Trolls is so this argument doesn't happen? How can I get out of these arguments without changing my stance? HOW!?!
Well, if they're heaving themselves up over the wall and a bolt hits their shield, it'd probably cause that hand to slip off the wall and they'd drop back down with some minor scrapes. If they're actually on top of the wall and getting up off their hands and knees and their shield got hit, not much would really happen (ignoring the possibility of the bolt going through and hitting them, because obviously them actually getting hit would be an actual wound).
Because no unit in this RP is invulnerable to any other. If you look at them, any unit in this RP is capable of taking out any other unit (assuming that they don't get taken out first), with your Trolls being the one possible exception (hence why you get so much backlash to it). Now sure, there are plenty of units that are horribly suited for taking down certain other ones, but they're all capable of it. Get enough pikemen and the axeman in their ranks will go down eventually. Get enough cavalry and they'll eventually break through the pikemen. Get enough archers and the cavalry will only last so long. Get enough axemen, and they end up defeating the archers. But by trying to make your Trolls invulnerable to arrows, you're effectively trying to make it so that regardless of how many archers the enemy has, a single one of your Trolls will always win. That's where the problem is. Keep in mind though that I'm not saying (and I don't think 8L is either) that archers will always beat Trolls, just that the Trolls will take some damage from the archers and will eventually go down (given that there are enough archers). Your Trolls are still extremely resistant to arrow fire, and on average can probably take over two dozen arrows before going down (sometimes way over that given poor, unlucky archers), but they're not quite invincible against them.
But it's a scorpion bolt, fired at a minimal range. They would need to be fully ready for the scorpion bolt, which they wouldn't have time for. And I'm just trying to clear up that he would get relatively few elves over. Either their sent backwards (and yes, probably only getting scrapes and bruises) or they take some actual injury that could take them far down in efficiency.
Really? I'm having a hard time of figuring out a way that Archers could defeat some of your tanks or my tanks due to no targets for them to aim at. Or what about the Steamrollers, I believe they could take down 30 or 40 pikemen before some luck would happen. However, all right, I'll go through and look at his units and take a couple casualties.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
OOC: For your point, if they're dropping from their bellies then they're smashed by the orcs spears. If not, then they are hit by the scorpions. Either way, you're accomplishing nothing. For the second point, my point is that Legolas's longbow (which is more powerful than a Beornings one) could barely prick a beast like this within a yard or two. Add even poor armor, and those longbows are doing nothing. If it was my Morian Troll unit, then I would be perfectly fine taking some losses, but this unit is only still around because people argue these points. And the Trolls aren't invulnerable, I specifically make them vulnerable to lances, siege weapons (even scorpions) and pikes because otherwise, yes their is an OP unit. But Arrows are arguably the least powerful pointy weapon in the RP. Please just stop arguing, I've had this argument way, way, WAY to many times. As for the third thing. . . What? Your elves are climbing over the wall, your Beornings are facing the Tanks with Trolls behind them. I nulled a move that was incorrect.
Some of this is nulled, until such a time that you explain how more than a couple elves have gotten across the wall with so many siege weapons firing over it. *Half the front line, ready for this, swing their flails into the Bears, smashing many. The Second line hit any that suceed to jump on the trolls, as the trolls fall.* *The Other half of the Trolls help the Archer Crew in keeping the Tanks on the Pass.* *My siege weapons at the Beorning Half fire at the siege weapons.* *My siege weapons at the Rivendell Half fire over the wall in their blanket format.*
OK, here's what I'm going to say: I have 110 Siege weapons that got double shots on your original siege weapons before yours got off one. With a 30% sucess rate (more than fair, I'd say. Goatman said 45% for KK in the Dimrill, so. . .) then I would have destroyed 66 with those units alone before you engaged. In addition, I had 20 Trebuchet firing off one shot before you got their, which would be an additional 6 down. Then, you fire and I fire, you would lose your remaining siege engines, losing an additional 33 at least, if you had that many. Your twenty, let's say got 4 Ballista, a Trebuchet and 3 Mangonels. Now, your next group comes in, and my troops will, again, probably get in three shots before you fire, except the Trebuchet which get two. The reason I say this is because scorpions have a lower range than most others, and would have to move through the wreckage of your original siege weapons.
Also, KitKat , If you could clear up stuff on the blanket, Troll armor and also make sure that I got numbers decent for the siege engine fight, that would be great. Sorry for having to call you, but the arguing is getting a little out of hand, and you will probably make an argument that whoever loses can't counter rather quickly.
If you need context for the Blanket thing, 8legos is saying that a large number of his elves would get up and over the wall and immediately able to defend themselves when I have 70 scorpion, 10 Siege ballistae and 30 ballistae firing at separate times, creating a blanket spread over a half-built 20 feet across wall. All siege engines are manned by proper operators, Arrows are flying through arrow slits in the wall at said elves until they are above them.
These are the elves jumping on the wall. As you can see in the bofa, the elves can easyly jump over the dwarves and their spears which if virtical would be a good 8 feet tall. So don't say they couldn't do the jump.
Didn't you have walls on both sides?
And there is no way that your trolls could have knowen that I have skin changers in there, plus they would be way to slow because of their armor. And I have a good 4 skinchangers to each of your trolls.
IC: *my elves contune to attack your orcs* *the skin changers contune to attack and finish smashing your trolls, taking medium losses*
*The beornings split, half going to attack the siege, half going to contune attacking the tanks*
OOC: Your tanks aren't wall to wall are they? Since if not there would be gaps and thats how my troops got through
*Siege fires one final volly at your troops be fore pulling back to avoid friendly fire.*
actually, they jump on top of a four foot dwarf, jump onto another one, and then over from a place of height past the spears, which aren't much further than three or four feet over what they did. No, my goblins are inside a hollow wall, and my tanks and trolls are at the top of the pass. No, but I have goblins directing them, who would know about the skinchangers and anticipate. Also, you have 63 Skinchangers, I have 50 HARmored Trolls. That's not 4 times. And anyway, unless all the Skinchangers are in the front (meaning several are smashed by the archers in the tanks) then their would be enough trolls. Also, the archers would have taken out about 12 as they fire into your front lines. I have 80 shots hitting stuff in the two volleys they would succeed in.(40 tanks, 3 archers a tank) And that would probably take out 12-18 skinchangers. Then add the devastating effect the Trolls first blow would have (due to Trolls having more control over momentum), then you might see that your skinchangers would not leave with medium casualties.
I am going to say no more moves until we figure this stuff out. Every one of your moves I disagree with except the last. The tanks have no gaps between them, though they aren't in any walls, unless you're talking about the wall of the pass. Please post a map of what you're seeing, so I can correct it (and I won't mention things like elves inside the hollow wall until I've figured out that with KK.)
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
Well, if they're heaving themselves up over the wall and a bolt hits their shield, it'd probably cause that hand to slip off the wall and they'd drop back down with some minor scrapes. If they're actually on top of the wall and getting up off their hands and knees and their shield got hit, not much would really happen (ignoring the possibility of the bolt going through and hitting them, because obviously them actually getting hit would be an actual wound).
Because no unit in this RP is invulnerable to any other. If you look at them, any unit in this RP is capable of taking out any other unit (assuming that they don't get taken out first), with your Trolls being the one possible exception (hence why you get so much backlash to it). Now sure, there are plenty of units that are horribly suited for taking down certain other ones, but they're all capable of it. Get enough pikemen and the axeman in their ranks will go down eventually. Get enough cavalry and they'll eventually break through the pikemen. Get enough archers and the cavalry will only last so long. Get enough axemen, and they end up defeating the archers. But by trying to make your Trolls invulnerable to arrows, you're effectively trying to make it so that regardless of how many archers the enemy has, a single one of your Trolls will always win. That's where the problem is. Keep in mind though that I'm not saying (and I don't think 8L is either) that archers will always beat Trolls, just that the Trolls will take some damage from the archers and will eventually go down (given that there are enough archers). Your Trolls are still extremely resistant to arrow fire, and on average can probably take over two dozen arrows before going down (sometimes way over that given poor, unlucky archers), but they're not quite invincible against them.
But it's a scorpion bolt, fired at a minimal range. They would need to be fully ready for the scorpion bolt, which they wouldn't have time for. And I'm just trying to clear up that he would get relatively few elves over. Either their sent backwards (and yes, probably only getting scrapes and bruises) or they take some actual injury that could take them far down in efficiency.
Really? I'm having a hard time of figuring out a way that Archers could defeat some of your tanks or my tanks due to no targets for them to aim at. Or what about the Steamrollers, I believe they could take down 30 or 40 pikemen before some luck would happen. However, all right, I'll go through and look at his units and take a couple casualties.
Bolts don't have a lot of mass to them. Plus, unless they hit smack-dab along the center line of the shield (in which case it'd probably penetrate and go into the Elf's arm), the force is going to cause the shield to just turn and allow it to glance off. Not much of the energy would go straight into the Elf.
All of them are capable of being destroyed by archers (at least mine, not sure about yours (probably are)). I'm not familiar with these steamrollers, so I can't really say for them.
These are the elves jumping on the wall. As you can see in the bofa, the elves can easyly jump over the dwarves and their spears which if virtical would be a good 8 feet tall. So don't say they couldn't do the jump.
Didn't you have walls on both sides?
And there is no way that your trolls could have knowen that I have skin changers in there, plus they would be way to slow because of their armor. And I have a good 4 skinchangers to each of your trolls.
IC: *my elves contune to attack your orcs* *the skin changers contune to attack and finish smashing your trolls, taking medium losses*
*The beornings split, half going to attack the siege, half going to contune attacking the tanks*
OOC: Your tanks aren't wall to wall are they? Since if not there would be gaps and thats how my troops got through
*Siege fires one final volly at your troops be fore pulling back to avoid friendly fire.*
actually, they jump on top of a four foot dwarf, jump onto another one, and then over from a place of height past the spears, which aren't much further than three or four feet over what they did. No, my goblins are inside a hollow wall, and my tanks and trolls are at the top of the pass. No, but I have goblins directing them, who would know about the skinchangers and anticipate. Also, you have 63 Skinchangers, I have 50 HARmored Trolls. That's not 4 times. And anyway, unless all the Skinchangers are in the front (meaning several are smashed by the archers in the tanks) then their would be enough trolls. Also, the archers would have taken out about 12 as they fire into your front lines. I have 80 shots hitting stuff in the two volleys they would succeed in.(40 tanks, 3 archers a tank) And that would probably take out 12-18 skinchangers. Then add the devastating effect the Trolls first blow would have (due to Trolls having more control over momentum), then you might see that your skinchangers would not leave with medium casualties.
I am going to say no more moves until we figure this stuff out. Every one of your moves I disagree with except the last. The tanks have no gaps between them, though they aren't in any walls, unless you're talking about the wall of the pass. Please post a map of what you're seeing, so I can correct it (and I won't mention things like elves inside the hollow wall until I've figured out that with KK.)
Ok I looked, and you are right, in that scene they are jumping on the dwarves again. However in my research I was reminded that elves where tall, and would have often been 7 feet tall. So it would be a simple matter to grab the wall jump up and pull themselves over. Which Is what they are doing now. (and always since I was mistaken about their abilities.)
So all the goblens are in a 8 foot tall, 25ish foot wide?
The goblins couldn't have known either, they where hidden in the tustedo.
Actually with the archers and siege you don't have more than about 12 trolls at this point.
They are in a tustedo, hidden back in the second and third ranks, only charging foward at the last moment. Which would protect them from the arrows. (Trolls have more control over momentum? In all that armor? NO.) With as much armor as you claim your trolls have, they could barely move let alone smash my much faster beornings.)
So your tanks are just lined up like a wall? Yet you claim that they have spikes, so unless they don't have the spikes, they would have some gaps that troops could pass through.
But it's a scorpion bolt, fired at a minimal range. They would need to be fully ready for the scorpion bolt, which they wouldn't have time for. And I'm just trying to clear up that he would get relatively few elves over. Either their sent backwards (and yes, probably only getting scrapes and bruises) or they take some actual injury that could take them far down in efficiency.
Really? I'm having a hard time of figuring out a way that Archers could defeat some of your tanks or my tanks due to no targets for them to aim at. Or what about the Steamrollers, I believe they could take down 30 or 40 pikemen before some luck would happen. However, all right, I'll go through and look at his units and take a couple casualties.
Bolts don't have a lot of mass to them. Plus, unless they hit smack-dab along the center line of the shield (in which case it'd probably penetrate and go into the Elf's arm), the force is going to cause the shield to just turn and allow it to glance off. Not much of the energy would go straight into the Elf.
All of them are capable of being destroyed by archers (at least mine, not sure about yours (probably are)). I'm not familiar with these steamrollers, so I can't really say for them.
So how many elves do you think would get past each time? please remember that my archers have arrow slits they're firing through at the elves, limiting the area they have to climb up.
How do archers destroy some of your gargantuan tanks? as for mine, the main way to disable them is to turn them on their side. Can't really do that if spears are poking at you as you lift. The Steamrollers are a Dol Amroth unit that is basically meant to plow through shieldwalls/pikewalls etc.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
actually, they jump on top of a four foot dwarf, jump onto another one, and then over from a place of height past the spears, which aren't much further than three or four feet over what they did. No, my goblins are inside a hollow wall, and my tanks and trolls are at the top of the pass. No, but I have goblins directing them, who would know about the skinchangers and anticipate. Also, you have 63 Skinchangers, I have 50 HARmored Trolls. That's not 4 times. And anyway, unless all the Skinchangers are in the front (meaning several are smashed by the archers in the tanks) then their would be enough trolls. Also, the archers would have taken out about 12 as they fire into your front lines. I have 80 shots hitting stuff in the two volleys they would succeed in.(40 tanks, 3 archers a tank) And that would probably take out 12-18 skinchangers. Then add the devastating effect the Trolls first blow would have (due to Trolls having more control over momentum), then you might see that your skinchangers would not leave with medium casualties.
I am going to say no more moves until we figure this stuff out. Every one of your moves I disagree with except the last. The tanks have no gaps between them, though they aren't in any walls, unless you're talking about the wall of the pass. Please post a map of what you're seeing, so I can correct it (and I won't mention things like elves inside the hollow wall until I've figured out that with KK.)
Ok I looked, and you are right, in that scene they are jumping on the dwarves again. However in my research I was reminded that elves where tall, and would have often been 7 feet tall. So it would be a simple matter to grab the wall jump up and pull themselves over. Which Is what they are doing now. (and always since I was mistaken about their abilities.)
So all the goblens are in a 8 foot tall, 25ish foot wide?
The goblins couldn't have known either, they where hidden in the tustedo.
Actually with the archers and siege you don't have more than about 12 trolls at this point.
They are in a tustedo, hidden back in the second and third ranks, only charging foward at the last moment. Which would protect them from the arrows. (Trolls have more control over momentum? In all that armor? NO.) With as much armor as you claim your trolls have, they could barely move let alone smash my much faster beornings.)
So your tanks are just lined up like a wall? Yet you claim that they have spikes, so unless they don't have the spikes, they would have some gaps that troops could pass through.
Hmm. . . OK. must have missed this.
7 feet? Their two feet higher than men on average? that seems a bit taller. Also, jumping up and pulling themselves still doesn't answer the shield problem.
Either in that area, or in the Goblin Town Entrance cave, which is connected to the wall.
no they weren't. They were behind a line of Tanks, not hidden in a tustedo.
not necessarily, due to your siege engines and archers also firing at the siege weapons, that would at least double the number.
The second and third ranks would be smashed as well, due to the fact that the Beornings don't have shields. The trolls have more CONTROL over the momentum, because a jump has much less control than a troll swinging. Also, we've already established they don't have that much armor.
The "spikes" are more like Barbed wire (although thicker and more attached than barbed wire would be), and are still metal. They're to prevent people from climbing over the tanks, not limit manueverabily as troops get close.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
Ok I looked, and you are right, in that scene they are jumping on the dwarves again. However in my research I was reminded that elves where tall, and would have often been 7 feet tall. So it would be a simple matter to grab the wall jump up and pull themselves over. Which Is what they are doing now. (and always since I was mistaken about their abilities.)
So all the goblens are in a 8 foot tall, 25ish foot wide?
The goblins couldn't have known either, they where hidden in the tustedo.
Actually with the archers and siege you don't have more than about 12 trolls at this point.
They are in a tustedo, hidden back in the second and third ranks, only charging foward at the last moment. Which would protect them from the arrows. (Trolls have more control over momentum? In all that armor? NO.) With as much armor as you claim your trolls have, they could barely move let alone smash my much faster beornings.)
So your tanks are just lined up like a wall? Yet you claim that they have spikes, so unless they don't have the spikes, they would have some gaps that troops could pass through.
Hmm. . . OK. must have missed this.
7 feet? Their two feet higher than men on average? that seems a bit taller. Also, jumping up and pulling themselves still doesn't answer the shield problem.
Either in that area, or in the Goblin Town Entrance cave, which is connected to the wall.
no they weren't. They were behind a line of Tanks, not hidden in a tustedo.
not necessarily, due to your siege engines and archers also firing at the siege weapons, that would at least double the number.
The second and third ranks would be smashed as well, due to the fact that the Beornings don't have shields. The trolls have more CONTROL over the momentum, because a jump has much less control than a troll swinging. Also, we've already established they don't have that much armor.
The "spikes" are more like Barbed wire (although thicker and more attached than barbed wire would be), and are still metal. They're to prevent people from climbing over the tanks, not limit manueverabily as troops get close.
Thats about what tolkien said. He also said that legolas was the tallest memember of the fellowship.
No, my beornings were.
They might not, but the men infront of them have large shields that would block arrows.
7 feet? Their two feet higher than men on average? that seems a bit taller. Also, jumping up and pulling themselves still doesn't answer the shield problem.
Either in that area, or in the Goblin Town Entrance cave, which is connected to the wall.
no they weren't. They were behind a line of Tanks, not hidden in a tustedo.
not necessarily, due to your siege engines and archers also firing at the siege weapons, that would at least double the number.
The second and third ranks would be smashed as well, due to the fact that the Beornings don't have shields. The trolls have more CONTROL over the momentum, because a jump has much less control than a troll swinging. Also, we've already established they don't have that much armor.
The "spikes" are more like Barbed wire (although thicker and more attached than barbed wire would be), and are still metal. They're to prevent people from climbing over the tanks, not limit manueverabily as troops get close.
Thats about what tolkien said. He also said that legolas was the tallest memember of the fellowship.
No, my beornings were.
They might not, but the men infront of them have large shields that would block arrows.
How are these powered again?
He did? Where? I'm sorry, what is the beornings comment replying to? But they can still fire over the shields and into the beornings. Cranks turned by orcs. Why does that matter though, it would be approximately the same weight.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
Thats about what tolkien said. He also said that legolas was the tallest memember of the fellowship.
No, my beornings were.
They might not, but the men infront of them have large shields that would block arrows.
How are these powered again?
He did? Where? I'm sorry, what is the beornings comment replying to? But they can still fire over the shields and into the beornings. Cranks turned by orcs. Why does that matter though, it would be approximately the same weight.
When the fellowship go's over caradras.
"The goblins couldn't have known either, they where hidden in the tustedo. " "no they weren't. They were behind a line of Tanks, not hidden in a tustedo. " "No, my beornings were. "
My beornings where in a tustedo where they couldn't have been seen by the goblens.
So your arrchers where fireing into this and hitting them? Plus there wouldn't be any noticeabal difference from a beorning to a defender.
He did? Where? I'm sorry, what is the beornings comment replying to? But they can still fire over the shields and into the beornings. Cranks turned by orcs. Why does that matter though, it would be approximately the same weight.
When the fellowship go's over caradras.
"The goblins couldn't have known either, they where hidden in the tustedo. " "no they weren't. They were behind a line of Tanks, not hidden in a tustedo. " "No, my beornings were. "
My beornings where in a tustedo where they couldn't have been seen by the goblens.
So your arrchers where fireing into this and hitting them? Plus there wouldn't be any noticeabal difference from a beorning to a defender.
However, even with such thick armor, you still have the weak points (if you have solid plate over the joints, then your Trolls are statues 
Why will nobody ever just let me have my trolls invulnerable to arrows? Would you say all of this with Morian Trolls? The point of have HArmored Trolls and Morian Trolls is so this argument doesn't happen? How can I get out of these arguments without changing my stance? HOW!?!
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I'm not sure we agreed on the armor of trolls. They are allready slow due them being rather large, and having thick skin, and having armor would make it almost stationery. Plus its a well known fact that orcs and goblins did not have good armor, and neither would trolls. Certionally not medieval plate armor. In addation, they have 1000 razar sharp armor percing steel brodheads flying toward them propelled by massive longbows. There isn't a lot that can surive that, armored or unarmored. And from the range about 100 feet away I would think, it would be even more powerfull, and there would be far less misses. Meaning that most of the trolls would be smashed or so heavly wounded that they could not fight. 