OOC: Maybe, but then again your sub-HQ is pretty much just a cave. What do you think KitKat and sorry KK.
OOC2: They started in it. Also you really think that they could have the timing to smash elves as soon as they clime over the wall?
IC: *Arrchers fire at the trolls smashing many*
*The beorning siege fires back, distroying some, and some trolls.*
*My beornings contune to advance and start climbing the half wall.*
*Also 500 elven SWE enter*
OOC: No they didn't. You just said they charged. Also, yes, because of the size of area, the number of siege weapons, I could just keep up a constant barrage and at most 1 or 2 elves would be able to get over.
IC: *Nulled.* HArmored Trolls, the only reason I use this troll is specifically so I (hopefully) don't have to argue that the troll can't be destroyed by arrows (minus the Legolas way, but come on.). If you need proof, then the Morian Cave Troll (the base troll species I use) withstood a javelin. And numerous arrows to it's shell by legolas. Add semi-proper medieval armor and that Troll SHOULD be near invulnerable to pointy-based weaponry. But because that's OP, it's just arrows that it's completely immune to.
*Trolls move into gaps left by the smashed trolls, the siege engines continue firing.* *Nulled.* Your actual move: *The Beornings have a head-on collision with my tanks.* My move to that: *The Pike Crew in the tanks attack the Beornings.*
Here's the map, in case you're wondering
EWAMW MS TB S S
EWAMW= Elves next to the Wall, with Archers and Melee goblins in it.
MS is my two sets of siege engines (the ones firing at the Elves AND the set firing at your siege)
TB is the Tanks and trolls, with the beornings that are now colliding with them.
S= your siege engines.
Say, I don't have a full unit list. Can I have that? just need one for the Beornings. Please include a separate list for the Original siege engines (a.k.a. the ones already here) and another separate one for the new 500 SWE.
Your battle confuses me. You're fighting on the pass, right? And didn't all of 8L's troops come from the same side relative to your troops? So how did 8L get is Beornings and siege weapons behind the wall and his Elves in front of it?
OOC: No they didn't. You just said they charged. Also, yes, because of the size of area, the number of siege weapons, I could just keep up a constant barrage and at most 1 or 2 elves would be able to get over.
IC: *Nulled.* HArmored Trolls, the only reason I use this troll is specifically so I (hopefully) don't have to argue that the troll can't be destroyed by arrows (minus the Legolas way, but come on.). If you need proof, then the Morian Cave Troll (the base troll species I use) withstood a javelin. And numerous arrows to it's shell by legolas. Add semi-proper medieval armor and that Troll SHOULD be near invulnerable to pointy-based weaponry. But because that's OP, it's just arrows that it's completely immune to.
*Trolls move into gaps left by the smashed trolls, the siege engines continue firing.* *Nulled.* Your actual move: *The Beornings have a head-on collision with my tanks.* My move to that: *The Pike Crew in the tanks attack the Beornings.*
Here's the map, in case you're wondering
EWAMW MS TB S S
EWAMW= Elves next to the Wall, with Archers and Melee goblins in it.
MS is my two sets of siege engines (the ones firing at the Elves AND the set firing at your siege)
TB is the Tanks and trolls, with the beornings that are now colliding with them.
S= your siege engines.
Say, I don't have a full unit list. Can I have that? just need one for the Beornings. Please include a separate list for the Original siege engines (a.k.a. the ones already here) and another separate one for the new 500 SWE.
Your battle confuses me. You're fighting on the pass, right? And didn't all of 8L's troops come from the same side relative to your troops? So how did 8L get is Beornings and siege weapons behind the wall and his Elves in front of it?
The elves came from Rivendell
One mod to rule them all and in the darkness ban them - Lord of the Mods "I am the Mod Reborn!" - masterlegobuilders I'm the real boss
OOC: No they didn't. You just said they charged. Also, yes, because of the size of area, the number of siege weapons, I could just keep up a constant barrage and at most 1 or 2 elves would be able to get over.
IC: *Nulled.* HArmored Trolls, the only reason I use this troll is specifically so I (hopefully) don't have to argue that the troll can't be destroyed by arrows (minus the Legolas way, but come on.). If you need proof, then the Morian Cave Troll (the base troll species I use) withstood a javelin. And numerous arrows to it's shell by legolas. Add semi-proper medieval armor and that Troll SHOULD be near invulnerable to pointy-based weaponry. But because that's OP, it's just arrows that it's completely immune to.
*Trolls move into gaps left by the smashed trolls, the siege engines continue firing.* *Nulled.* Your actual move: *The Beornings have a head-on collision with my tanks.* My move to that: *The Pike Crew in the tanks attack the Beornings.*
Here's the map, in case you're wondering
EWAMW MS TB S S
EWAMW= Elves next to the Wall, with Archers and Melee goblins in it.
MS is my two sets of siege engines (the ones firing at the Elves AND the set firing at your siege)
TB is the Tanks and trolls, with the beornings that are now colliding with them.
S= your siege engines.
Say, I don't have a full unit list. Can I have that? just need one for the Beornings. Please include a separate list for the Original siege engines (a.k.a. the ones already here) and another separate one for the new 500 SWE.
Your battle confuses me. You're fighting on the pass, right? And didn't all of 8L's troops come from the same side relative to your troops? So how did 8L get is Beornings and siege weapons behind the wall and his Elves in front of it?
Simple. The Elves are from Rivendell, and never went past Goblin Town. The Beornings have been on the other side this whole time as well.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
Your battle confuses me. You're fighting on the pass, right? And didn't all of 8L's troops come from the same side relative to your troops? So how did 8L get is Beornings and siege weapons behind the wall and his Elves in front of it?
Simple. The Elves are from Rivendell, and never went past Goblin Town. The Beornings have been on the other side this whole time as well.
That makes more sense. But you have just a single wall along the pass somewhere?
OOC: Maybe, but then again your sub-HQ is pretty much just a cave. What do you think KitKat and sorry KK.
OOC2: They started in it. Also you really think that they could have the timing to smash elves as soon as they clime over the wall?
IC: *Arrchers fire at the trolls smashing many*
*The beorning siege fires back, distroying some, and some trolls.*
*My beornings contune to advance and start climbing the half wall.*
*Also 500 elven SWE enter*
OOC: No they didn't. You just said they charged. Also, yes, because of the size of area, the number of siege weapons, I could just keep up a constant barrage and at most 1 or 2 elves would be able to get over.
IC: *Nulled.* HArmored Trolls, the only reason I use this troll is specifically so I (hopefully) don't have to argue that the troll can't be destroyed by arrows (minus the Legolas way, but come on.). If you need proof, then the Morian Cave Troll (the base troll species I use) withstood a javelin. And numerous arrows to it's shell by legolas. Add semi-proper medieval armor and that Troll SHOULD be near invulnerable to pointy-based weaponry. But because that's OP, it's just arrows that it's completely immune to.
*Trolls move into gaps left by the smashed trolls, the siege engines continue firing.* *Nulled.* Your actual move: *The Beornings have a head-on collision with my tanks.* My move to that: *The Pike Crew in the tanks attack the Beornings.*
Here's the map, in case you're wondering
EWAMW MS TB S S
EWAMW= Elves next to the Wall, with Archers and Melee goblins in it.
MS is my two sets of siege engines (the ones firing at the Elves AND the set firing at your siege)
TB is the Tanks and trolls, with the beornings that are now colliding with them.
S= your siege engines.
Say, I don't have a full unit list. Can I have that? just need one for the Beornings. Please include a separate list for the Original siege engines (a.k.a. the ones already here) and another separate one for the new 500 SWE.
C: You really think they're going to just stand on the top of the wall? They just pulled themselves over and droped down. You would have to hit your own wall to do that.
OOC2: This is what I hear. "My trolls are invulnerable" That is way to OP, I don't care how much you spend on it, if it can't be smashed, its OP and should be banned. I'm not sure we agreed on the armor of trolls. They are allready slow due them being rather large, and having thick skin, and having armor would make it almost stationery. Plus its a well known fact that orcs and goblins did not have good armor, and neither would trolls. Certionally not medieval plate armor. In addation, they have 1000 razar sharp armor percing steel brodheads flying toward them propelled by massive longbows. There isn't a lot that can surive that, armored or unarmored. And from the range about 100 feet away I would think, it would be even more powerfull, and there would be far less misses. Meaning that most of the trolls would be smashed or so heavly wounded that they could not fight.
OOC3: Really? That is not my move, my move was that they start to climb over the wall. You will see my next move soon.
IC *Out of the reformed formation bursts several skinchangers in bear form. They jump on the trolls and start attacking them*
*with many of the elves over the wall now they engage with your melee troops*
*my arrchers fire another volly of fire arrows at your siege weapons destroying several*
*All the siege fires at your siege destroying much*
*The Defenders move to engage your tanks, useing thir large shields as protection and they use their spears as levers slowlly pushing your tanks to and over the edge of the pass*
OOC: No they didn't. You just said they charged. Also, yes, because of the size of area, the number of siege weapons, I could just keep up a constant barrage and at most 1 or 2 elves would be able to get over.
IC: *Nulled.* HArmored Trolls, the only reason I use this troll is specifically so I (hopefully) don't have to argue that the troll can't be destroyed by arrows (minus the Legolas way, but come on.). If you need proof, then the Morian Cave Troll (the base troll species I use) withstood a javelin. And numerous arrows to it's shell by legolas. Add semi-proper medieval armor and that Troll SHOULD be near invulnerable to pointy-based weaponry. But because that's OP, it's just arrows that it's completely immune to.
*Trolls move into gaps left by the smashed trolls, the siege engines continue firing.* *Nulled.* Your actual move: *The Beornings have a head-on collision with my tanks.* My move to that: *The Pike Crew in the tanks attack the Beornings.*
Here's the map, in case you're wondering
EWAMW MS TB S S
EWAMW= Elves next to the Wall, with Archers and Melee goblins in it.
MS is my two sets of siege engines (the ones firing at the Elves AND the set firing at your siege)
TB is the Tanks and trolls, with the beornings that are now colliding with them.
S= your siege engines.
Say, I don't have a full unit list. Can I have that? just need one for the Beornings. Please include a separate list for the Original siege engines (a.k.a. the ones already here) and another separate one for the new 500 SWE.
C: You really think they're going to just stand on the top of the wall? They just pulled themselves over and droped down. You would have to hit your own wall to do that.
OOC2: This is what I hear. "My trolls are invulnerable" That is way to OP, I don't care how much you spend on it, if it can't be smashed, its OP and should be banned. I'm not sure we agreed on the armor of trolls. They are allready slow due them being rather large, and having thick skin, and having armor would make it almost stationery. Plus its a well known fact that orcs and goblins did not have good armor, and neither would trolls. Certionally not medieval plate armor. In addation, they have 1000 razar sharp armor percing steel brodheads flying toward them propelled by massive longbows. There isn't a lot that can surive that, armored or unarmored. And from the range about 100 feet away I would think, it would be even more powerfull, and there would be far less misses. Meaning that most of the trolls would be smashed or so heavly wounded that they could not fight.
OOC3: Really? That is not my move, my move was that they start to climb over the wall. You will see my next move soon.
IC *Out of the reformed formation bursts several skinchangers in bear form. They jump on the trolls and start attacking them*
*with many of the elves over the wall now they engage with your melee troops*
*my arrchers fire another volly of fire arrows at your siege weapons destroying several*
*All the siege fires at your siege destroying much*
*The Defenders move to engage your tanks, useing thir large shields as protection and they use their spears as levers slowlly pushing your tanks to and over the edge of the pass*
OOC: For your point, if they're dropping from their bellies then they're smashed by the orcs spears. If not, then they are hit by the scorpions. Either way, you're accomplishing nothing. For the second point, my point is that Legolas's longbow (which is more powerful than a Beornings one) could barely prick a beast like this within a yard or two. Add even poor armor, and those longbows are doing nothing. If it was my Morian Troll unit, then I would be perfectly fine taking some losses, but this unit is only still around because people argue these points. And the Trolls aren't invulnerable, I specifically make them vulnerable to lances, siege weapons (even scorpions) and pikes because otherwise, yes their is an OP unit. But Arrows are arguably the least powerful pointy weapon in the RP. Please just stop arguing, I've had this argument way, way, WAY to many times. As for the third thing. . . What? Your elves are climbing over the wall, your Beornings are facing the Tanks with Trolls behind them. I nulled a move that was incorrect.
Some of this is nulled, until such a time that you explain how more than a couple elves have gotten across the wall with so many siege weapons firing over it. *Half the front line, ready for this, swing their flails into the Bears, smashing many. The Second line hit any that suceed to jump on the trolls, as the trolls fall.* *The Other half of the Trolls help the Archer Crew in keeping the Tanks on the Pass.* *My siege weapons at the Beorning Half fire at the siege weapons.* *My siege weapons at the Rivendell Half fire over the wall in their blanket format.*
OK, here's what I'm going to say: I have 110 Siege weapons that got double shots on your original siege weapons before yours got off one. With a 30% sucess rate (more than fair, I'd say. Goatman said 45% for KK in the Dimrill, so. . .) then I would have destroyed 66 with those units alone before you engaged. In addition, I had 20 Trebuchet firing off one shot before you got their, which would be an additional 6 down. Then, you fire and I fire, you would lose your remaining siege engines, losing an additional 33 at least, if you had that many. Your twenty, let's say got 4 Ballista, a Trebuchet and 3 Mangonels. Now, your next group comes in, and my troops will, again, probably get in three shots before you fire, except the Trebuchet which get two. The reason I say this is because scorpions have a lower range than most others, and would have to move through the wreckage of your original siege weapons.
Also, KitKat, If you could clear up stuff on the blanket, Troll armor and also make sure that I got numbers decent for the siege engine fight, that would be great. Sorry for having to call you, but the arguing is getting a little out of hand, and you will probably make an argument that whoever loses can't counter rather quickly.
If you need context for the Blanket thing, 8legos is saying that a large number of his elves would get up and over the wall and immediately able to defend themselves when I have 70 scorpion, 10 Siege ballistae and 30 ballistae firing at separate times, creating a blanket spread over a half-built 20 feet across wall. All siege engines are manned by proper operators, Arrows are flying through arrow slits in the wall at said elves until they are above them.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
C: You really think they're going to just stand on the top of the wall? They just pulled themselves over and droped down. You would have to hit your own wall to do that.
OOC2: This is what I hear. "My trolls are invulnerable" That is way to OP, I don't care how much you spend on it, if it can't be smashed, its OP and should be banned. I'm not sure we agreed on the armor of trolls. They are allready slow due them being rather large, and having thick skin, and having armor would make it almost stationery. Plus its a well known fact that orcs and goblins did not have good armor, and neither would trolls. Certionally not medieval plate armor. In addation, they have 1000 razar sharp armor percing steel brodheads flying toward them propelled by massive longbows. There isn't a lot that can surive that, armored or unarmored. And from the range about 100 feet away I would think, it would be even more powerfull, and there would be far less misses. Meaning that most of the trolls would be smashed or so heavly wounded that they could not fight.
OOC3: Really? That is not my move, my move was that they start to climb over the wall. You will see my next move soon.
IC *Out of the reformed formation bursts several skinchangers in bear form. They jump on the trolls and start attacking them*
*with many of the elves over the wall now they engage with your melee troops*
*my arrchers fire another volly of fire arrows at your siege weapons destroying several*
*All the siege fires at your siege destroying much*
*The Defenders move to engage your tanks, useing thir large shields as protection and they use their spears as levers slowlly pushing your tanks to and over the edge of the pass*
OOC: For your point, if they're dropping from their bellies then they're smashed by the orcs spears. If not, then they are hit by the scorpions. Either way, you're accomplishing nothing. For the second point, my point is that Legolas's longbow (which is more powerful than a Beornings one) could barely prick a beast like this within a yard or two. Add even poor armor, and those longbows are doing nothing. If it was my Morian Troll unit, then I would be perfectly fine taking some losses, but this unit is only still around because people argue these points. And the Trolls aren't invulnerable, I specifically make them vulnerable to lances, siege weapons (even scorpions) and pikes because otherwise, yes their is an OP unit. But Arrows are arguably the least powerful pointy weapon in the RP. Please just stop arguing, I've had this argument way, way, WAY to many times. As for the third thing. . . What? Your elves are climbing over the wall, your Beornings are facing the Tanks with Trolls behind them. I nulled a move that was incorrect.
Some of this is nulled, until such a time that you explain how more than a couple elves have gotten across the wall with so many siege weapons firing over it. *Half the front line, ready for this, swing their flails into the Bears, smashing many. The Second line hit any that suceed to jump on the trolls, as the trolls fall.* *The Other half of the Trolls help the Archer Crew in keeping the Tanks on the Pass.* *My siege weapons at the Beorning Half fire at the siege weapons.* *My siege weapons at the Rivendell Half fire over the wall in their blanket format.*
OK, here's what I'm going to say: I have 110 Siege weapons that got double shots on your original siege weapons before yours got off one. With a 30% sucess rate (more than fair, I'd say. Goatman said 45% for KK in the Dimrill, so. . .) then I would have destroyed 66 with those units alone before you engaged. In addition, I had 20 Trebuchet firing off one shot before you got their, which would be an additional 6 down. Then, you fire and I fire, you would lose your remaining siege engines, losing an additional 33 at least, if you had that many. Your twenty, let's say got 4 Ballista, a Trebuchet and 3 Mangonels. Now, your next group comes in, and my troops will, again, probably get in three shots before you fire, except the Trebuchet which get two. The reason I say this is because scorpions have a lower range than most others, and would have to move through the wreckage of your original siege weapons.
Also, KitKat , If you could clear up stuff on the blanket, Troll armor and also make sure that I got numbers decent for the siege engine fight, that would be great. Sorry for having to call you, but the arguing is getting a little out of hand, and you will probably make an argument that whoever loses can't counter rather quickly.
If you need context for the Blanket thing, 8legos is saying that a large number of his elves would get up and over the wall and immediately able to defend themselves when I have 70 scorpion, 10 Siege ballistae and 30 ballistae firing at separate times, creating a blanket spread over a half-built 20 feet across wall. All siege engines are manned by proper operators, Arrows are flying through arrow slits in the wall at said elves until they are above them.
1000 Vale Pikes. Worth 1.5 Total: 1500 MWE 1000 Yeomen. Worth 1 Total: 1000 MWE 1000 Vale Defenders Worth 1 Total:1000MWE 250 Vale Marksmen Worth 2 Total 500 MWE 63 Skinchangers. Worth 8 Total 500 MWE 125 Eotheod Wardens. Worth 4 Total 500 MWE. 5000 MWE 3k beornings (what's this?) 1000 beornings 500 WORTH Guardians of the Carrock. 500 WORTH Guardians of the Vail 500 Vale Marksmen 800 SWE 50 Onager worth 10 42 Onager worth 7
So first, let me address the "blanket" and the Elves jumping the wall. You say you're using seventy scorpions, ten siege ballistae, and thirty ballistae, right? Well, from what I can find, scorpions can fire off three or four shots a minute, so let's say that they collectively get two hundred and fifty shots off per minute. Ballistae I don't have any official numbers, but I would estimate to maybe one or two bolts per minute, so we'll say fifty total. The siege ballistae are slow enough that they're not going to be very significant, particularly against infantry. So, if you three hundred shots fired per minute fired in volleys every second, then you've got five bolts every second. Spread amongst a twenty-foot wall, that's one bolt for every four feet of wall. If you fire them in volleys every five seconds you get twenty-five bolts per volley, or a bit over one bolt per foot. Now let's say that there's an Elf climbing every two feet of wall. If you fire a volley per second, then you should hit about half of the Elves (not necessarily defeat, as it may not be a very good hit). If you fire a volley every five second you'll have a much higher success rate, except for the fact that the Elves could time things so that they go over the top in between volleys. As for the Elves then fighting the pikemen, that would depend upon what the Elves are carrying. If they've got shields, then many of them could block that first stab and then be able to attack the Orcs, also allowing more Elves to come up behind them. Also keep in mind that if you've got Orcs at the top of the wall, and you're also firing low enough to the top of the wall to hit some trying to slip over, there's a good chance that you'll hit your own Orcs.
As for the siege weapons attacking each other, I think your numbers are a bit off. Assuming all ranges are equal, you'd probably get off your first shot just slightly before 8L gets off his. You wouldn't likely get a second shot off before 8L's fire. Actually, that wouldn't apply to 8L's trebuchets. Because trebuchets have to be reassembled after moving, you'd probably get two shots off on them with your trebuchets. Oh, and the first volley of everything isn't likely to do much, as it'd mainly be gauging range. Actually, since there's a wall in the way, it may take several shots to gauge the range. However, the ranges of these weapons aren't equal. Trebuchets have a range of about three hundred meters. Onagers and mangonels I don't know, but I would guess about two hundred and fifty and two hundred meters, respectively. Ballistae, on the other hand, have significantly longer ranges. Scorpions can fire about four hundred meters, and ballistae over four hundred and fifty. Siege ballistae would probably be around four hundred meters. So obviously the ballistae of various types would be able to open fire before the catapults, and then casualties mainly depend upon how 8L attacks with his weapons. Also, when did Gotee say something about a forty-five percent hit rate on my stuff at Dimrill? I don't recall any such thing.
And now the Trolls. I agree in part with both of you. Yes, arrows aren't going to be very effective against an armored Troll, as most of the arrows will go through the armor and then just a little ways into the Troll's skin. That's not to say, however, that the Trolls are immune to arrows. For one thing, all armor has some weak points (particularly the joints). Fire enough arrows, and a few are bound to land in those weak points and further injure the Troll. Same goes with the Troll itself, as it also has some soft spots that are easily injured, such as its eyes, mouth, and stomach. So if you fire enough shots, you're going to take the Troll out eventually, it just might take a while. Plus, even non-fatal hits (those going through the armor and into the Troll's skin) will do some damage. As the Troll moves around, his body will move relative to the armor, effectively causing the armor to wiggle the arrows around, widening the wound. The more this happens the more pain the Troll will be in and the more blood he'll lose, and then he'll eventually pass out from one or the other (but not before severely weakening him and perhaps causing him to go on a rampage, smashing friend and foe alike).
For the Beornings, 8L does need to show how he's getting them past the tanks.
OOC: For your point, if they're dropping from their bellies then they're smashed by the orcs spears. If not, then they are hit by the scorpions. Either way, you're accomplishing nothing. For the second point, my point is that Legolas's longbow (which is more powerful than a Beornings one) could barely prick a beast like this within a yard or two. Add even poor armor, and those longbows are doing nothing. If it was my Morian Troll unit, then I would be perfectly fine taking some losses, but this unit is only still around because people argue these points. And the Trolls aren't invulnerable, I specifically make them vulnerable to lances, siege weapons (even scorpions) and pikes because otherwise, yes their is an OP unit. But Arrows are arguably the least powerful pointy weapon in the RP. Please just stop arguing, I've had this argument way, way, WAY to many times. As for the third thing. . . What? Your elves are climbing over the wall, your Beornings are facing the Tanks with Trolls behind them. I nulled a move that was incorrect.
Some of this is nulled, until such a time that you explain how more than a couple elves have gotten across the wall with so many siege weapons firing over it. *Half the front line, ready for this, swing their flails into the Bears, smashing many. The Second line hit any that suceed to jump on the trolls, as the trolls fall.* *The Other half of the Trolls help the Archer Crew in keeping the Tanks on the Pass.* *My siege weapons at the Beorning Half fire at the siege weapons.* *My siege weapons at the Rivendell Half fire over the wall in their blanket format.*
OK, here's what I'm going to say: I have 110 Siege weapons that got double shots on your original siege weapons before yours got off one. With a 30% sucess rate (more than fair, I'd say. Goatman said 45% for KK in the Dimrill, so. . .) then I would have destroyed 66 with those units alone before you engaged. In addition, I had 20 Trebuchet firing off one shot before you got their, which would be an additional 6 down. Then, you fire and I fire, you would lose your remaining siege engines, losing an additional 33 at least, if you had that many. Your twenty, let's say got 4 Ballista, a Trebuchet and 3 Mangonels. Now, your next group comes in, and my troops will, again, probably get in three shots before you fire, except the Trebuchet which get two. The reason I say this is because scorpions have a lower range than most others, and would have to move through the wreckage of your original siege weapons.
Also, KitKat , If you could clear up stuff on the blanket, Troll armor and also make sure that I got numbers decent for the siege engine fight, that would be great. Sorry for having to call you, but the arguing is getting a little out of hand, and you will probably make an argument that whoever loses can't counter rather quickly.
If you need context for the Blanket thing, 8legos is saying that a large number of his elves would get up and over the wall and immediately able to defend themselves when I have 70 scorpion, 10 Siege ballistae and 30 ballistae firing at separate times, creating a blanket spread over a half-built 20 feet across wall. All siege engines are manned by proper operators, Arrows are flying through arrow slits in the wall at said elves until they are above them.
1000 Vale Pikes. Worth 1.5 Total: 1500 MWE 1000 Yeomen. Worth 1 Total: 1000 MWE 1000 Vale Defenders Worth 1 Total:1000MWE 250 Vale Marksmen Worth 2 Total 500 MWE 63 Skinchangers. Worth 8 Total 500 MWE 125 Eotheod Wardens. Worth 4 Total 500 MWE. 5000 MWE 3k beornings (what's this?) 1000 beornings 500 WORTH Guardians of the Carrock. 500 WORTH Guardians of the Vail 500 Vale Marksmen 800 SWE 50 Onager worth 10 42 Onager worth 7
So first, let me address the "blanket" and the Elves jumping the wall. You say you're using seventy scorpions, ten siege ballistae, and thirty ballistae, right? Well, from what I can find, scorpions can fire off three or four shots a minute, so let's say that they collectively get two hundred and fifty shots off per minute. Ballistae I don't have any official numbers, but I would estimate to maybe one or two bolts per minute, so we'll say fifty total. The siege ballistae are slow enough that they're not going to be very significant, particularly against infantry. So, if you three hundred shots fired per minute fired in volleys every second, then you've got five bolts every second. Spread amongst a twenty-foot wall, that's one bolt for every four feet of wall. If you fire them in volleys every five seconds you get twenty-five bolts per volley, or a bit over one bolt per foot. Now let's say that there's an Elf climbing every two feet of wall. If you fire a volley per second, then you should hit about half of the Elves (not necessarily defeat, as it may not be a very good hit). If you fire a volley every five second you'll have a much higher success rate, except for the fact that the Elves could time things so that they go over the top in between volleys. As for the Elves then fighting the pikemen, that would depend upon what the Elves are carrying. If they've got shields, then many of them could block that first stab and then be able to attack the Orcs, also allowing more Elves to come up behind them. Also keep in mind that if you've got Orcs at the top of the wall, and you're also firing low enough to the top of the wall to hit some trying to slip over, there's a good chance that you'll hit your own Orcs.
As for the siege weapons attacking each other, I think your numbers are a bit off. Assuming all ranges are equal, you'd probably get off your first shot just slightly before 8L gets off his. You wouldn't likely get a second shot off before 8L's fire. Actually, that wouldn't apply to 8L's trebuchets. Because trebuchets have to be reassembled after moving, you'd probably get two shots off on them with your trebuchets. Oh, and the first volley of everything isn't likely to do much, as it'd mainly be gauging range. Actually, since there's a wall in the way, it may take several shots to gauge the range. However, the ranges of these weapons aren't equal. Trebuchets have a range of about three hundred meters. Onagers and mangonels I don't know, but I would guess about two hundred and fifty and two hundred meters, respectively. Ballistae, on the other hand, have significantly longer ranges. Scorpions can fire about four hundred meters, and ballistae over four hundred and fifty. Siege ballistae would probably be around four hundred meters. So obviously the ballistae of various types would be able to open fire before the catapults, and then casualties mainly depend upon how 8L attacks with his weapons. Also, when did Gotee say something about a forty-five percent hit rate on my stuff at Dimrill? I don't recall any such thing.
And now the Trolls. I agree in part with both of you. Yes, arrows aren't going to be very effective against an armored Troll, as most of the arrows will go through the armor and then just a little ways into the Troll's skin. That's not to say, however, that the Trolls are immune to arrows. For one thing, all armor has some weak points (particularly the joints). Fire enough arrows, and a few are bound to land in those weak points and further injure the Troll. Same goes with the Troll itself, as it also has some soft spots that are easily injured, such as its eyes, mouth, and stomach. So if you fire enough shots, you're going to take the Troll out eventually, it just might take a while. Plus, even non-fatal hits (those going through the armor and into the Troll's skin) will do some damage. As the Troll moves around, his body will move relative to the armor, effectively causing the armor to wiggle the arrows around, widening the wound. The more this happens the more pain the Troll will be in and the more blood he'll lose, and then he'll eventually pass out from one or the other (but not before severely weakening him and perhaps causing him to go on a rampage, smashing friend and foe alike).
For the Beornings, 8L does need to show how he's getting them past the tanks.
The troops look approximately right. Mine are right for sure.
Troops can climb with shields in front as they climb? Unless they're small shields, I would think the shield would get in the way.
I thought that I saw it somewhere. anyway, 1/3 is a typical hit rate I thought. I have a height advantage, and they're not near the wall, they're at the highest point on the Pass. All right, then what would you suggest for his current losses?
Longbows can get through sheets of metal? larger sheets of metal than heavy armor? because that is likely what a trolls armor would be. And when trollskin was barely pricked from feet away with an elvish longbow, I don't think normal human longbows could stick them into a troll without being much closer than these archers are.
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.
1000 Vale Pikes. Worth 1.5 Total: 1500 MWE 1000 Yeomen. Worth 1 Total: 1000 MWE 1000 Vale Defenders Worth 1 Total:1000MWE 250 Vale Marksmen Worth 2 Total 500 MWE 63 Skinchangers. Worth 8 Total 500 MWE 125 Eotheod Wardens. Worth 4 Total 500 MWE. 5000 MWE 3k beornings (what's this?) 1000 beornings 500 WORTH Guardians of the Carrock. 500 WORTH Guardians of the Vail 500 Vale Marksmen 800 SWE 50 Onager worth 10 42 Onager worth 7
So first, let me address the "blanket" and the Elves jumping the wall. You say you're using seventy scorpions, ten siege ballistae, and thirty ballistae, right? Well, from what I can find, scorpions can fire off three or four shots a minute, so let's say that they collectively get two hundred and fifty shots off per minute. Ballistae I don't have any official numbers, but I would estimate to maybe one or two bolts per minute, so we'll say fifty total. The siege ballistae are slow enough that they're not going to be very significant, particularly against infantry. So, if you three hundred shots fired per minute fired in volleys every second, then you've got five bolts every second. Spread amongst a twenty-foot wall, that's one bolt for every four feet of wall. If you fire them in volleys every five seconds you get twenty-five bolts per volley, or a bit over one bolt per foot. Now let's say that there's an Elf climbing every two feet of wall. If you fire a volley per second, then you should hit about half of the Elves (not necessarily defeat, as it may not be a very good hit). If you fire a volley every five second you'll have a much higher success rate, except for the fact that the Elves could time things so that they go over the top in between volleys. As for the Elves then fighting the pikemen, that would depend upon what the Elves are carrying. If they've got shields, then many of them could block that first stab and then be able to attack the Orcs, also allowing more Elves to come up behind them. Also keep in mind that if you've got Orcs at the top of the wall, and you're also firing low enough to the top of the wall to hit some trying to slip over, there's a good chance that you'll hit your own Orcs.
As for the siege weapons attacking each other, I think your numbers are a bit off. Assuming all ranges are equal, you'd probably get off your first shot just slightly before 8L gets off his. You wouldn't likely get a second shot off before 8L's fire. Actually, that wouldn't apply to 8L's trebuchets. Because trebuchets have to be reassembled after moving, you'd probably get two shots off on them with your trebuchets. Oh, and the first volley of everything isn't likely to do much, as it'd mainly be gauging range. Actually, since there's a wall in the way, it may take several shots to gauge the range. However, the ranges of these weapons aren't equal. Trebuchets have a range of about three hundred meters. Onagers and mangonels I don't know, but I would guess about two hundred and fifty and two hundred meters, respectively. Ballistae, on the other hand, have significantly longer ranges. Scorpions can fire about four hundred meters, and ballistae over four hundred and fifty. Siege ballistae would probably be around four hundred meters. So obviously the ballistae of various types would be able to open fire before the catapults, and then casualties mainly depend upon how 8L attacks with his weapons. Also, when did Gotee say something about a forty-five percent hit rate on my stuff at Dimrill? I don't recall any such thing.
And now the Trolls. I agree in part with both of you. Yes, arrows aren't going to be very effective against an armored Troll, as most of the arrows will go through the armor and then just a little ways into the Troll's skin. That's not to say, however, that the Trolls are immune to arrows. For one thing, all armor has some weak points (particularly the joints). Fire enough arrows, and a few are bound to land in those weak points and further injure the Troll. Same goes with the Troll itself, as it also has some soft spots that are easily injured, such as its eyes, mouth, and stomach. So if you fire enough shots, you're going to take the Troll out eventually, it just might take a while. Plus, even non-fatal hits (those going through the armor and into the Troll's skin) will do some damage. As the Troll moves around, his body will move relative to the armor, effectively causing the armor to wiggle the arrows around, widening the wound. The more this happens the more pain the Troll will be in and the more blood he'll lose, and then he'll eventually pass out from one or the other (but not before severely weakening him and perhaps causing him to go on a rampage, smashing friend and foe alike).
For the Beornings, 8L does need to show how he's getting them past the tanks.
The troops look approximately right. Mine are right for sure.
Troops can climb with shields in front as they climb? Unless they're small shields, I would think the shield would get in the way.
I thought that I saw it somewhere. anyway, 1/3 is a typical hit rate I thought. I have a height advantage, and they're not near the wall, they're at the highest point on the Pass. All right, then what would you suggest for his current losses?
Longbows can get through sheets of metal? larger sheets of metal than heavy armor? because that is likely what a trolls armor would be. And when trollskin was barely pricked from feet away with an elvish longbow, I don't think normal human longbows could stick them into a troll without being much closer than these archers are.
They can absolutely hold them to their front-left (or right), though directly in front is difficult (assuming that they're using a ladder). Depending on how they're climbing up, though, they may be able to put their shield-arm up over the top of the wall first, and then heave themselves up behind. I don't really have the information to say whether that'd be doable right now, though.
Not that I know of. As I said, his losses would depend upon how he approaches things. I don't know exactly how he went about using his artillery, or how quickly/far he approached with them and that's what chiefly determines what each of your losses would be.
If that's really how thick your Troll armor is, then know that what little mobility Trolls typically have is just about gone. Expect them to take several seconds at least to turn around. However, even with such thick armor, you still have the weak points (if you have solid plate over the joints, then your Trolls are statues ). Joints are going to have to be lightly armored to remain actual joints, and an arrow could definitely pierce through there. Even though a hit like that wouldn't be immediately lethal, it would have the strongest effect of any area in the way I talked about before. Plus you've got the eye-holes, which the smaller you make those the poorer your Trolls' visibility will be.
The troops look approximately right. Mine are right for sure.
Troops can climb with shields in front as they climb? Unless they're small shields, I would think the shield would get in the way.
I thought that I saw it somewhere. anyway, 1/3 is a typical hit rate I thought. I have a height advantage, and they're not near the wall, they're at the highest point on the Pass. All right, then what would you suggest for his current losses?
Longbows can get through sheets of metal? larger sheets of metal than heavy armor? because that is likely what a trolls armor would be. And when trollskin was barely pricked from feet away with an elvish longbow, I don't think normal human longbows could stick them into a troll without being much closer than these archers are.
They can absolutely hold them to their front-left (or right), though directly in front is difficult (assuming that they're using a ladder). Depending on how they're climbing up, though, they may be able to put their shield-arm up over the top of the wall first, and then heave themselves up behind. I don't really have the information to say whether that'd be doable right now, though.
Not that I know of. As I said, his losses would depend upon how he approaches things. I don't know exactly how he went about using his artillery, or how quickly/far he approached with them and that's what chiefly determines what each of your losses would be.
If that's really how thick your Troll armor is, then know that what little mobility Trolls typically have is just about gone. Expect them to take several seconds at least to turn around. However, even with such thick armor, you still have the weak points (if you have solid plate over the joints, then your Trolls are statues ). Joints are going to have to be lightly armored to remain actual joints, and an arrow could definitely pierce through there. Even though a hit like that wouldn't be immediately lethal, it would have the strongest effect of any area in the way I talked about before. Plus you've got the eye-holes, which the smaller you make those the poorer your Trolls' visibility will be.
No ladder. They're presumably either jumping up or boosting each other up. It's only 7 or 8 feet, so it would be possible, if not likely. Also, Wouldn't a scorpion bolt fired at them, if it hit, un-balance them enough for them to be sent backwards.
Ok.
Uuugh. Why will nobody ever just let me have my trolls invulnerable to arrows? Would you say all of this with Morian Trolls? The point of have HArmored Trolls and Morian Trolls is so this argument doesn't happen? How can I get out of these arguments without changing my stance? HOW!?!
Tul Generas of the Orcs, Darthraxx of the dragon Knights. I RP, and have lots of fun.