No. But going back to Bobbywan's argument -- The Bible WOULD tell us whether or not musical instruments are bad. Since it doesn't, it is our right and our privilege to assume that playing instruments during worship isn't wrong.
Again -- Christianity is one of the most liberal religions in the world. We have a lot of freedom as to how we act out our faith. The choice in what worship music we use is just one example.
In a world of skepticism and critics, we cannot afford to be superstitious, or orthodox. Music is a great way to reach people.
Also, just from a purely logical standpoint: wouldn't it be pretty stupid for The Bible to put a ban on musical instruments? There is nothing particularly morally evil about a musical instrument. Heck -- the Human mouth is capable of far worse things than a musical instrument, and yet, by your logic, the mouth is the only musical instrument we're allowed to use.
I mean, the same thing we use to spout curses and insults is also the best instrument to use for worship? Logically speaking, a guitar is a far safer instrument to use during worship. And yet, our mouthes are explicitly allowed, and encouraged for, worship. Therefore, there shouldn't be anything wrong with musical instruments, and indeed, if you consult The Bible, there isn't anything wrong with musical instruments.
But hey, it's just a theory A GOD THEORY!!!!! Thanks for watching
Why doesn't God tell us everything, he tells us what to use and that's all we need. we don't decide what to add based on our own ideas. Orthodox means right, right thinking. its a theory, yes and its not that true, we're better not but i;m not about to call someone a Heretic over it.
The whole point of the Christian religion is that we don't have to be -- and in fact, shouldn't be, orthodox.
Orthodoxy denotes exclusiveness, and is bound to push people away from faith. Instead of following any sort of rules, we are to simply avoid doing any of the things The Bible says is wrong -- and to use common sense from there. Now then. Seeing as how music is one of our greatest weapons for reaching people who haven't been saved yet: I think it's safe to say that musical instruments are a healthy part of worship
God wants us to -- this means that the Bible (and honestly, Christ himself rather than Paul) specifically instructs that we do these things. These include loving your enemy as you love yourself and not judging others.
God wants us not to -- this means that the Bible specifically instructs that we avoid these things. This tends to include lying to Him, theft, etc.
God never told us what He thought -- this means that God neither forbade it nor told us that we must do it. It is most likely that He doesn't care either way as it's not important and doesn't lead to salvation or condemnation. Examples include bringing your dog to church, wearing blue as opposed to green, etc.
If God didn't tell us about instruments, it's incredibly likely that it's so low on the list of priorities that arguing about it is very, very pointless.
As for "are stupid Logic" -- I'm going to stop you right there and probably end this conversation. "Logic" as a school of thought and a study is very, very deeply tied to mathematics and is really a fundamental part of both the human mind and the way the universe works. To call it stupid is equivalent to calling God's design for the universe stupid, a claim which is in itself very stupid.
I mean are Logic as Human,s strike back those who strike us, do what we like etc, Jesus was different, we always have human natures and Logic so are reasoning isn't to be trusted, we reason on the bible but deciding tedious things, I don't think we're to decide what we think is best.
I have decided that it is best to avoid eating raw meat whenever possible, and I didn't read The Bible before reaching that conclusion. Is my Human logic wrong?
Humans fail a lot. However -- if we are guided by The Bible, and the Holy Spirit, doesn't that mean that we will make better decisions?
I can't count the number of churches that use musical instruments during worship. And I can't count the number of times I've seen people lift their hands into the air and go into a trance due to some of the music that plays in Churches. When that many Christians unanimously agree that music in Church is a good thing -- it's a clear indicator that it's a good thing to do.
*Thinks of Skillet, even though they're not a punk rock band, but still*
As long as the message of any given song is pure and focused on the Lord I don't see any reason not to play Christian punk rock music during a sermon
I hope that's a joke, even if it is its a very bad one.
I'm not syaing punk music is suited to a church ceremony, but music is not sometihng to be outlawed with the church. I went to a baptism last year, where the song 'Our God is a Great Big God' was played on a CD. There was nothing wrong with it. Equally, there are hyms. As Mrcqm said, music is perfectly fine in a ceremony.
Just to reiterate what someone else (Bobbywan, I think) said, Jesus compared the Kingdom of God to a mustard seed in an analogy. Pizza may not be close to as great as the Kingdom of God, but mustard seeds are even less so.
I agree wholeheartedly. If Jesus had been sent to earth in the present day, instead of 2, 000 years ago, who can say he wouldn't use a pizza instead of a seed?
To be fair, this new Republican is a lunatic who cheated his way into the presidency to make himself even MORE rich and famous than he already was
Trump, is going to be a great us president. The electoral college exists to prevent some crazy person from becoming president. It is serving the nation rightfully.
Ah. So the question is no longer 'is it wrong to play musical instruments in worship?' so much as it is 'Is it the best thing to do?'
At this point, we have reduced this matter to that of complete opinion. Only you can determine what sounds better -- instruments, or no instruments. But the important thing to remember is that in any case, we are given the freedom to express our love for God in almost any way we want (respecting certain boundaries, of course, and not being lunatics also helps : P)
If God wanted us to use them, don't you think he would have told us?
Don't you think he'd also have told us not to use them? Also, at numerous points in the Bible, we here of ''Choirs of Angels.'' If he doesn't want us to use music in worship, why would he send messenegrs to us that are communicating through song?
The ending of Revelation is intended to be a warning against adding or taking away from the words of REVELATION specifically -- not any of the other books in The Bible, just Revelation.
However, if we follow that thread of logic you presented, Tweed, we could also say YOU are guilty of adding on to The Bible by saying that we are disallowed from playing musical instruments in worship. therefore, you are just as guilty of 'adding on' to The Bible as the very people who do play musical instruments.
I defer you back to Bobbywan's argument. To expect The Bible to specifically tell you everything you CAN do not just what you can't do is absolute folly. The whole point of the Christian Religion is that it isn't works based -- that we as followers of Christ have been liberated from the burdens most other religions present, because we've already been made salvageable. Following any sort of strict orthodoxy, therefore, would only serve to discredit our religion, and make us look no better than Buddhist monks.
If God wanted us to why didn't he tell us? let are stupid Logic figure it out? Play cue games in verses? You're the one who won't listen, you're defining what you think is best. Maybe Ib think we can do anything we want as long as we worship.
Because he did not create us as mindless robots that follow his every command. His gave us free will. He told us a few things we should do, and what not to do. If he did not want us to think of our own ways of worship (e.g. playing music at mass) why did he give us free will?
Trump, is going to be a great us president. The electoral college exists to prevent some crazy person from becoming president. It is serving the nation rightfully.
He said "this scroll," which meant the Book of Revelation. Even so, the point of Jesus' sacrifice was so that we wouldn't have to be perfect and follow all the rules to get to heaven. If we had a bunch of rules we had to follow like "don't use instruments to worship," that would defeat the purpose. We can't have rules like that because that would ruin the whole point of the crucifixion.
In Galatians Paul said, "It was for freedom that Christ set us free!" We have complete freedom in Jesus Christ. Technically we are free to do anything we want because we're covered by Jesus' righteousness. Even sin won't stop us from getting into heaven. But since we now have the Holy Spirit living in us, we shouldn't want to sin. We are being sanctified, and are becoming more and more like Jesus.
We Christians should be grateful for our freedom because it prevents us from being punished for our past sins, but instead of using our freedom as an excuse to keep sinning, we should be following Jesus' example and becoming more like Him.
This scroll could mean the whole bible, but does that mean we can add verses in Romans?
Of course not, but I really think the whole instrument argument should be over by now. See mrcqm's and Keplers' last posts (before yours which I am replying to). I think they really put the whole thing to an end using logic. You don't have to use instruments if you don't want to, but no one's going to be thrown in hell for it. Especially not people who are already saved from hell.
Technically we can. We just shouldn't. See my last post. (if it made it up, it's about 3 paragraphs, that's how you'll know if it's the right one)
I saw it but I think the right Doctrine is also important, I said it was wrong, will it send you to [censored] if you use them in worship, no but still.
As long as we both agree on that last point, I think there's really no point in continuing to argue about it.
