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Post by yjflordofbio123 on Apr 16, 2017 1:50:15 GMT
Can we be real here? All the villains as of late seem to be sort of..
..Stupid
Let's be real. The good villains were back in the day. Ursula, Maleficent type characters. Cruella De Vil, Evil Queen. The good old fashioned ones, although Cruella kinda pushed it. The height of good villains, lowest point for heroes. Then there was a change, the disney renaissance. The Little Mermaid was the first, then there's Beauty and the Beast, which really marked, in my opinion, the end of the good movies, in terms of villains. All the new ones, which, have all been one word titles, might I add, are kind of..The villains are weird.
The Disney Revival, is what it's called. I'm ignoring movies in it, like Big Hero 6, or Wreck It Ralph for example, for there isn't really a princess at all. Same for Zootopia. Tangled, Frozen, Brave, Moana. I'm gonna exclude Moana, because I have yet to actually see it. Tangled's villain was a bit more obvious, but for Rapunzel, it was very NOT obvious. Mother Gothel, was obviously a villain to US, but to Rapunzel, it was not very obvious. In Frozen, we never thought Hans would be the villain, but he was. They made us believe that the Duke would be the villain, and other characters in the movie were suspicious of Hans, yet not Anna. Anna was like us, while in Tangled, Gothel, the only one who thought she wasn't a villain at first was Rapunzel.
In Brave, while Mor'du is most certainly an antagonist, as was Duke and the Stabbington Brothers were also antagonistic, I believe that Merida, in fact, was the main antagonist of her story. She caused the events, and while Mor'du most certainly was an antagonist, they did not make him the clear and front villain.
They don't do that anymore. They don't make clear cut antagonists, that are villainous, to EVERYONE at first, aside from their minions, perhaps. That annoys me. One could argue it started before this, back with Gaston, perhaps, but no. With him, he was a novelty. A breath of fresh air, breaking from the tropes set before.
Except now that has become the trope. It's now rare for us to get clear cut antagonists, like Ursula or Maleficent, or Cruella De Vil, or the Evil Queen. I would count Jafar, but he doesn't fit clear cut, but he's almost clear cut.
I just wanted to rant. Thanks for reading.
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Post by Jade on Apr 16, 2017 4:05:07 GMT
Why do villains need to be obvious?
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Apr 16, 2017 4:16:31 GMT
-last edited on Apr 16, 2017 4:19:07 GMT by bun02
Post by bun02 on Apr 16, 2017 4:16:31 GMT
I agree. xD The most recent villains, including ones from Big Hero 6, Frozen, Wreck-It Ralph, Moana, and Zootopia have all been very...uh...non clear-cut villains. Either because they were assumed "good guys" who were actually evil, or because (don't read the jammers if you haven't seen Moana)
You mentioned Gaston. I don't see how he isn't a villain; I mean, he's mean to Belle and her father and is obviously evil later in the movie. Unless you're referring to the live-action, which I haven't seen yet. Mor'du really isn't pushed as a villain, come to think of it. And the witch doesn't seem to be evil at all, either. I also think Jafar is clear-cut. He looks evil, and plays the part of "jealous ____ of the ___" perfectly.
What I mean by that is you can classify a lot of the villains using that fill-in-the-blank phrase. In Jafar's case it would be "Jealous vizier of the sultan"; in Ursula's case it would be "Jealous sister of the sea king" (in a Disney book about Ursula it says she is Triton's sister.); in Scar's case it would be "Jealous brother of the king". See what I mean yet? 
I think it's pretty cool what they did with Hans and the others; when I first watched Frozen my expression turned to O_O in a second and I was loving the whole surprise villain thing. But they're just overdoing it now, what with Bellwether and Professor Callaghan and everyone. It's time we get another good, old-fashioned villain.
{JAMMERS!} Te Fiti/Te Ka was rather a twist villain or what you want to call it. We see her as Te Ka, a villain, only to find in the end she is Te Fiti and isn't evil at all. In this case I guess Tamatoa would be the villain, although I can't really decide if he's evil or not. Then there's the Kakamora, who I don't really think are made out to be villains. So you could go a lot of ways with it.
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Post by yjflordofbio123 on Apr 16, 2017 5:20:34 GMT
Why do villains need to be obvious? They don't have to, and I feel like I'm not describing it accurately. I miss the old villains, where they had magic, or were more obvious, and didn't rely on cliches. Are we dealing with the fact our parents are evil? Is our fiancee secretly planning to hurt us? I am my own worst enemy? I like them, I just miss the older guys.
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Apr 16, 2017 22:59:46 GMT
Post by KllyTheAnn on Apr 16, 2017 22:59:46 GMT
Why do villains need to be obvious? They don't have to, and I feel like I'm not describing it accurately. I miss the old villains, where they had magic, or were more obvious, and didn't rely on cliches. Are we dealing with the fact our parents are evil? Is our fiancee secretly planning to hurt us? I am my own worst enemy? I like them, I just miss the older guys. Well, there's Toffee from Star vs. the Forces of Evil, but he hasn't gotten much screentime in the first two seasons. Ludo is kinda also a kinda a villain, though that is really only during the second season. Also, not really sure you would like Star vs. the Forces of Evil.
kllyann from the orignal LEGO Message Boards
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Post by Gnuehchcaz on Apr 17, 2017 0:09:04 GMT
Interesting points. Though I think it's supposed to reflect the idea that not all things that are evil look evil, or that someone could look good by appearance and have tempting promises, but actually at heart they only think for themselves. I think it highlights some of the weaknesses of the protagonists that they don't have enough discernment to make sure that someone or something is credible, or of good intentions.
It does seem to get repetitive with the more recent movies, but maybe Disney's trying to emphasize that perhaps it is actually a problem of society today.
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Post by LegoBuilder on Apr 17, 2017 2:09:08 GMT
Can we be real here? All the villains as of late seem to be sort of.. ..Stupid Let's be real. The good villains were back in the day. Ursula, Maleficent type characters. Cruella De Vil, Evil Queen. The good old fashioned ones, although Cruella kinda pushed it. The height of good villains, lowest point for heroes. Then there was a change, the disney renaissance. The Little Mermaid was the first, then there's Beauty and the Beast, which really marked, in my opinion, the end of the good movies, in terms of villains. All the new ones, which, have all been one word titles, might I add, are kind of..The villains are weird. The Disney Revival, is what it's called. I'm ignoring movies in it, like Big Hero 6, or Wreck It Ralph for example, for there isn't really a princess at all. Same for Zootopia. Tangled, Frozen, Brave, Moana. I'm gonna exclude Moana, because I have yet to actually see it. Tangled's villain was a bit more obvious, but for Rapunzel, it was very NOT obvious. Mother Gothel, was obviously a villain to US, but to Rapunzel, it was not very obvious. In Frozen, we never thought Hans would be the villain, but he was. They made us believe that the Duke would be the villain, and other characters in the movie were suspicious of Hans, yet not Anna. Anna was like us, while in Tangled, Gothel, the only one who thought she wasn't a villain at first was Rapunzel. In Brave, while Mor'du is most certainly an antagonist, as was Duke and the Stabbington Brothers were also antagonistic, I believe that Merida, in fact, was the main antagonist of her story. She caused the events, and while Mor'du most certainly was an antagonist, they did not make him the clear and front villain. They don't do that anymore. They don't make clear cut antagonists, that are villainous, to EVERYONE at first, aside from their minions, perhaps. That annoys me. One could argue it started before this, back with Gaston, perhaps, but no. With him, he was a novelty. A breath of fresh air, breaking from the tropes set before. Except now that has become the trope. It's now rare for us to get clear cut antagonists, like Ursula or Maleficent, or Cruella De Vil, or the Evil Queen. I would count Jafar, but he doesn't fit clear cut, but he's almost clear cut. I just wanted to rant. Thanks for reading. Captain Hook, Chernabog, Shere Khan, Shan-Yu, and Scar were all decent villains. Shan-Yu and Scar are obviously the better two, because Captain Hook is a wimp and Shere Khan is a tiger. Shan-Yu is pure evil, and Scar is probably the best Disney villain of all time. Chernabog is an interesting case, though. He only appears in Fantasia, but he is the stuff of nightmares. Look up "Night on Bald Mountain Fantasia" if you want to see him in action. Hans was one of the worst villains ever. The "twist" at the end of Frozen just made me angry instead of surprised. The twist in Big Hero 6 was decent, but you're not counting that one.
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Post by yjflordofbio123 on Apr 17, 2017 3:05:29 GMT
They don't have to, and I feel like I'm not describing it accurately. I miss the old villains, where they had magic, or were more obvious, and didn't rely on cliches. Are we dealing with the fact our parents are evil? Is our fiancee secretly planning to hurt us? I am my own worst enemy? I like them, I just miss the older guys. Well, there's Toffee from Star vs. the Forces of Evil, but he hasn't gotten much screentime in the first two seasons. Ludo is kinda also a kinda a villain, though that is really only during the second season. Also, not really sure you would like Star vs. the Forces of Evil. Oh, I like it, I just haven't had the time to really watch it. Hekapoo is awesome.
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Post by yjflordofbio123 on Apr 17, 2017 3:06:22 GMT
Can we be real here? All the villains as of late seem to be sort of.. ..Stupid Let's be real. The good villains were back in the day. Ursula, Maleficent type characters. Cruella De Vil, Evil Queen. The good old fashioned ones, although Cruella kinda pushed it. The height of good villains, lowest point for heroes. Then there was a change, the disney renaissance. The Little Mermaid was the first, then there's Beauty and the Beast, which really marked, in my opinion, the end of the good movies, in terms of villains. All the new ones, which, have all been one word titles, might I add, are kind of..The villains are weird. The Disney Revival, is what it's called. I'm ignoring movies in it, like Big Hero 6, or Wreck It Ralph for example, for there isn't really a princess at all. Same for Zootopia. Tangled, Frozen, Brave, Moana. I'm gonna exclude Moana, because I have yet to actually see it. Tangled's villain was a bit more obvious, but for Rapunzel, it was very NOT obvious. Mother Gothel, was obviously a villain to US, but to Rapunzel, it was not very obvious. In Frozen, we never thought Hans would be the villain, but he was. They made us believe that the Duke would be the villain, and other characters in the movie were suspicious of Hans, yet not Anna. Anna was like us, while in Tangled, Gothel, the only one who thought she wasn't a villain at first was Rapunzel. In Brave, while Mor'du is most certainly an antagonist, as was Duke and the Stabbington Brothers were also antagonistic, I believe that Merida, in fact, was the main antagonist of her story. She caused the events, and while Mor'du most certainly was an antagonist, they did not make him the clear and front villain. They don't do that anymore. They don't make clear cut antagonists, that are villainous, to EVERYONE at first, aside from their minions, perhaps. That annoys me. One could argue it started before this, back with Gaston, perhaps, but no. With him, he was a novelty. A breath of fresh air, breaking from the tropes set before. Except now that has become the trope. It's now rare for us to get clear cut antagonists, like Ursula or Maleficent, or Cruella De Vil, or the Evil Queen. I would count Jafar, but he doesn't fit clear cut, but he's almost clear cut. I just wanted to rant. Thanks for reading. Captain Hook, Chernabog, Shere Khan, Shan-Yu, and Scar were all decent villains. Shan-Yu and Scar are obviously the better two, because Captain Hook is a wimp and Shere Khan is a tiger. Shan-Yu is pure evil, and Scar is probably the best Disney villain of all time. Chernabog is an interesting case, though. He only appears in Fantasia, but he is the stuff of nightmares. Look up "Night on Bald Mountain Fantasia" if you want to see him in action. Hans was one of the worst villains ever. The "twist" at the end of Frozen just made me angry instead of surprised. The twist in Big Hero 6 was decent, but you're not counting that one. Never seen Chernabog, Captain Hook sucks, Shere Khan was pretty lit, didn't see Mulan, and Scar was dull. I would count it, but it's not a disney princess one. Which is kinda what I'm focusing on.
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Post by bun02 on Apr 17, 2017 3:26:24 GMT
Captain Hook, Chernabog, Shere Khan, Shan-Yu, and Scar were all decent villains. Shan-Yu and Scar are obviously the better two, because Captain Hook is a wimp and Shere Khan is a tiger. Shan-Yu is pure evil, and Scar is probably the best Disney villain of all time. Chernabog is an interesting case, though. He only appears in Fantasia, but he is the stuff of nightmares. Look up "Night on Bald Mountain Fantasia" if you want to see him in action. Hans was one of the worst villains ever. The "twist" at the end of Frozen just made me angry instead of surprised. The twist in Big Hero 6 was decent, but you're not counting that one. Never seen Chernabog, Captain Hook sucks, Shere Khan was pretty lit, didn't see Mulan, and Scar was dull. I would count it, but it's not a disney princess one. Which is kinda what I'm focusing on.
b) And how can you possibly call Scar dull O_o (sorry he's my favorite villain so I kind of freaked )
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Post by yjflordofbio123 on Apr 17, 2017 3:31:42 GMT
Never seen Chernabog, Captain Hook sucks, Shere Khan was pretty lit, didn't see Mulan, and Scar was dull. I would count it, but it's not a disney princess one. Which is kinda what I'm focusing on.
b) And how can you possibly call Scar dull O_o (sorry he's my favorite villain so I kind of freaked )A. IDK B. Scar's just, not that entertaining of a villain. Maleficent's funny as heck, and Ursula is lit. Cruella's pretty spooky, the Evil Queen was hysterical. "OH, IM SCARED SHES PRETTIER THAN ME. LEMME GO TURN MYSELF INTO AN UGLY HAG AND TRY TO KILL HER THAT WAY." Scar has none of those attributes.
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Post by LegoBuilder on Apr 17, 2017 3:39:53 GMT
a) How have you never seen Mulan (and Shan-Yu isn't a very good villain either)
b) And how can you possibly call Scar dull O_o (sorry he's my favorite villain so I kind of freaked ) A. IDK B. Scar's just, not that entertaining of a villain. Maleficent's funny as heck, and Ursula is lit. Cruella's pretty spooky, the Evil Queen was hysterical. "OH, IM SCARED SHES PRETTIER THAN ME. LEMME GO TURN MYSELF INTO AN UGLY HAG AND TRY TO KILL HER THAT WAY." Scar has none of those attributes. B. Scar has class, and one of the greatest villain songs ever. Maleficent is decent, Ursula is weird, Cruella is weird, and the Evil Queen's motivation is stupid.
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Post by LegoBuilder on Apr 17, 2017 3:41:12 GMT
Never seen Chernabog, Captain Hook sucks, Shere Khan was pretty lit, didn't see Mulan, and Scar was dull. I would count it, but it's not a disney princess one. Which is kinda what I'm focusing on.
b) And how can you possibly call Scar dull O_o (sorry he's my favorite villain so I kind of freaked )A) How is Shan-Yu a bad villain? B) He is indeed the best villain in the Disneyverse.
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Post by yjflordofbio123 on Apr 17, 2017 4:15:31 GMT
A. IDK B. Scar's just, not that entertaining of a villain. Maleficent's funny as heck, and Ursula is lit. Cruella's pretty spooky, the Evil Queen was hysterical. "OH, IM SCARED SHES PRETTIER THAN ME. LEMME GO TURN MYSELF INTO AN UGLY HAG AND TRY TO KILL HER THAT WAY." Scar has none of those attributes. B. Scar has class, and one of the greatest villain songs ever. Maleficent is decent, Ursula is weird, Cruella is weird, and the Evil Queen's motivation is stupid. *lets out shriek* URSULA IS AMAZING SHE HAS AN AMAZING SONG, AND URSULA IS AMAZING TAKE THAT BACK URSULA'S MY BOO
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Post by LegoBuilder on Apr 17, 2017 4:24:18 GMT
B. Scar has class, and one of the greatest villain songs ever. Maleficent is decent, Ursula is weird, Cruella is weird, and the Evil Queen's motivation is stupid. *lets out shriek* URSULA IS AMAZING SHE HAS AN AMAZING SONG, AND URSULA IS AMAZING TAKE THAT BACK URSULA'S MY BOO Singing about poor unfortunate souls isn't very evil.
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